8 ms·

Dean Kamen On Colbert Report: Segway Inventor Has New Device For Injured Troops

18 points by icey 17y ago

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
orblivion 17y ago
So, how does it work?
- stan_rogers 17y ago
  Myoelectricity -- muscles that are unused/unusable but still have nervous control are tapped for motive signals, and the user learns to associate the path fairly quickly. The feedback is generally by direct electrical stimulation from pressure-sensitive receptors in the "fingertips" -- the intensity of the stimulation and the pattern can both be used to indicate pressure, heat (a burn may not cause injury to the wearer, but it could cause harm to the prosthesis) and so on, and may be paired with mechanical feedback (a series of "joy buzzers", if you will).
- sp332 17y ago
  I'm not sure where people got the idea that it's controlled by myoelectrics, because it's not. (They're not ruling it out for future versions.) The current version is controlled by reading physical force on pads placed on various muscle groups and in the shoes. You have to actually contract muscles/curl your toes to control the arm.
- blhack 17y ago
  The question was already answered, but how how wonderful would it be if it was connected to something like the [1]emote epoc. I really really hope that things like that will be the future of physical interfaces. [1]http://www.emotiv.com/ http://www.emotiv.com/
stan_rogers 17y ago
This is, of course, going to be godawful expensive -- but I hope it gets treated as a "right" in a way that the iBot chair wasn't. I don't mean this particular device necessarily, but there needs to be something driving these enabling technologies to the point that economies of scale can bring the injured (and, where possible, those suffering from congenital disabilities) into full participation in this world. Accommodation is nice, but removing the need for accommodation would be a hell of a lot better for all of us.
- sp332 17y ago
  The trouble with the iBot was that it was only reimbursed as a wheelchair. You wouldn't believe the hassle Dean Kamen went through with various government agencies and legislators trying to get it reimbursed at a reasonable rate, but it never happened. I think prosthetics are better in this regard. Kamen went after arms specifically because prosthetic legs are already really advanced (therefore expensive and properly reimbursed).
  - stan_rogers 17y ago
    See, that's the kind of nonsense we need to be done with once and for all. A "mere wheelchair" is something a person recovering from an accident or surgery might need to use for a few weeks, or, perhaps, something like the equivalent of a bicycle for someone making a deliberate decision to be active. But for an alarmingly large number of people -- quads, high-loss paras, people with CP, MS or spinabifida, etc -- the "chair" is a prosthesis, a strap-on body that allows them to move through and interact with a world that is otherwise denied to them. Until enough people can see that, we can't say we've progressed much beyond the point of handing out begging-bowls...
- karzeem 17y ago
  Reimbursement for prosthetics can vary a lot depending on the patient population you're talking about. An elderly diabetic who rarely leaves home and loses a leg would be lucky to get something halfway wearable. But for young, active people, a lot of insurance companies regard a C-Leg (which costs something like $50,000 altogether) as pretty much standard. (I say that as a C-Leg owner.) Prosthetic legs aren't phenomenal, but they're way ahead of arms. I think the combination of this new arm (which may be the first that's both highly wearable and produces serious functionality improvements) and a high-visibility patient population that skews young and active spells good things for reimbursement.
adolph 17y ago
Someone who has time to listen to the whole thing: Do they mention Zaphod Beeblebrox?
- roryokane 17y ago
  No, they don’t.
rufo 17y ago
Wikipedia linked to this article with some details on the arm: http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/bionics/dean-kamens-luke-arm-prosthesis-readies-for-clinical-trials http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/bionics/dean-kamens-luke...

18 points by icey 17y ago

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

orblivion 17y ago

So, how does it work?

stan_rogers 17y ago
Myoelectricity -- muscles that are unused/unusable but still have nervous control are tapped for motive signals, and the user learns to associate the path fairly quickly. The feedback is generally by direct electrical stimulation from pressure-sensitive receptors in the "fingertips" -- the intensity of the stimulation and the pattern can both be used to indicate pressure, heat (a burn may not cause injury to the wearer, but it could cause harm to the prosthesis) and so on, and may be paired with mechanical feedback (a series of "joy buzzers", if you will).
sp332 17y ago
I'm not sure where people got the idea that it's controlled by myoelectrics, because it's not. (They're not ruling it out for future versions.) The current version is controlled by reading physical force on pads placed on various muscle groups and in the shoes. You have to actually contract muscles/curl your toes to control the arm.
blhack 17y ago
The question was already answered, but how how wonderful would it be if it was connected to something like the [1]emote epoc. I really really hope that things like that will be the future of physical interfaces. [1]http://www.emotiv.com/ http://www.emotiv.com/

stan_rogers 17y ago

This is, of course, going to be godawful expensive -- but I hope it gets treated as a "right" in a way that the iBot chair wasn't. I don't mean this particular device necessarily, but there needs to be something driving these enabling technologies to the point that economies of scale can bring the injured (and, where possible, those suffering from congenital disabilities) into full participation in this world. Accommodation is nice, but removing the need for accommodation would be a hell of a lot better for all of us.

sp332 17y ago
The trouble with the iBot was that it was only reimbursed as a wheelchair. You wouldn't believe the hassle Dean Kamen went through with various government agencies and legislators trying to get it reimbursed at a reasonable rate, but it never happened. I think prosthetics are better in this regard. Kamen went after arms specifically because prosthetic legs are already really advanced (therefore expensive and properly reimbursed).
- stan_rogers 17y ago
  See, that's the kind of nonsense we need to be done with once and for all. A "mere wheelchair" is something a person recovering from an accident or surgery might need to use for a few weeks, or, perhaps, something like the equivalent of a bicycle for someone making a deliberate decision to be active. But for an alarmingly large number of people -- quads, high-loss paras, people with CP, MS or spinabifida, etc -- the "chair" is a prosthesis, a strap-on body that allows them to move through and interact with a world that is otherwise denied to them. Until enough people can see that, we can't say we've progressed much beyond the point of handing out begging-bowls...
karzeem 17y ago
Reimbursement for prosthetics can vary a lot depending on the patient population you're talking about. An elderly diabetic who rarely leaves home and loses a leg would be lucky to get something halfway wearable. But for young, active people, a lot of insurance companies regard a C-Leg (which costs something like $50,000 altogether) as pretty much standard. (I say that as a C-Leg owner.) Prosthetic legs aren't phenomenal, but they're way ahead of arms. I think the combination of this new arm (which may be the first that's both highly wearable and produces serious functionality improvements) and a high-visibility patient population that skews young and active spells good things for reimbursement.

adolph 17y ago

Someone who has time to listen to the whole thing: Do they mention Zaphod Beeblebrox?

roryokane 17y ago
No, they don’t.

rufo 17y ago

Wikipedia linked to this article with some details on the arm: http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/bionics/dean-kamens-luke-arm-prosthesis-readies-for-clinical-trials http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/bionics/dean-kamens-luke...