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I find it interesting how hard people are trying to find some reason for Apple's decision to remove the headphone jack, aside from the very obvious one: they're

by Kadin 10y ago

I find it interesting how hard people are trying to find some reason for Apple's decision to remove the headphone jack, aside from the very obvious one: they're going to make a shitload of money by forcing everyone to buy new headphones. Apple gets royalties from the production of Lightning connectors, which they certainly don't from standard 1/8th-inch TRS jacks. So therefore, they have a very obvious and vested interest in killing off standardized connectors and pushing everything to proprietary connectors, for which they receive royalties, whenever possible.

cezary 10y ago
This is how I see it. There's no mention of Airpods using bluetooth, I'm betting that W1 chip is using a proprietary wireless protocol that keeps other manufacturers from easily/cheaply creating wireless headphones or using these wireless headphones on other devices.
- SCdF 10y ago
  Exactly. And then at some point they'll have the "courage" to drop bluetooth as well.
- mulmen 10y ago
  From the Apple webpage: http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods Connections AirPods: Bluetooth
- WillPostForFood 10y ago
  Apple says they are bluetooth here: http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods
eridius 10y ago
> aside from the very obvious one: they're going to make a shitload of money by forcing everyone to buy new headphones You obviously have no idea how Apple works. Apple would never in a million years make a user-hostile decision like this simply to collect royalties. They hold user experience to be sacred, and the fact that they're making this move now means they think that, at least in the long term, this will provide for a better overall user experience, despite the pain of the transition. Everybody complained when Apple ditched the 30pin connector for Lightning too, basically all of the same arguments here (e.g. "Apple just wants everybody to buy new accessories"), but it turned out to be the right move. Making this argument again over the headphone port just means you don't know Apple and you don't know history.
- chetanahuja 10y ago
  "You obviously have no idea how Apple works." I have no comment on how Apple actually works or doesn't work but I admire the marketing acumen of a company when a random internet user can argue so passionately about eternal goodness of the company. Especially a company that's about as secretive in it's actual operations as nation-state level intelligence agencies.
  - eridius 10y ago
    > eternal goodness of the company Who's talking about goodness? I'm talking about the values that Apple has, and how your claim is a gross violation of those values. I didn't say Apple was "good", however you want to define that. User experience is but one facet of the whole, though it's an important one. And if you're trying to dismiss my arguments on the ground that I'm a "random internet user", then you have to dismiss literally every single comment made in this thread, or any HN thread, including yours.
  - ubernostrum 10y ago
    In fairness, Apple mostly has an image of being "the company random cranky internet commenters accuse of horrible things, which later turns out not to have done the horrible things the cranky internet commenters accused them of". This is a repetitive cycle. See it happening right in this thread with the "Apple invented a proprietary wireless protocol to DRM all the music, close the analog hole and make you license their tech" stuff. When... it's just Bluetooth. Same thing happened when they put the microphone and volume controls in the iPhone earbuds; people said it was a way to insert a secret "DRM chip" and force only Apple-approved headphones to be able to listen to music. So if nothing else, the weight of history is against your "just did this to charge people money" argument. Plus, y'know, the adapter's literally included in the box.
    - chetanahuja 10y ago
      weight of history is against your "just did this to charge people money" argument I had no comment on any of that. In fact I started my comment with "I have no comment on how Apple actually works or doesn't work"
bphogan 10y ago
So including the $9 adapter in the box is just a token gesture so they can pretend to care about legacy things? I dunno - if they were really in this for making you buy new headphones, they'd not bundle the adapter, like they did in the past when they switched from 30-pin to lightening.
- mightykan 10y ago
  They included that adapter this year but is it going to be there next year? Is the next phone going to have the Lightning wired headphone, too? Apple's like the empire. They _will_ be altering the deal.
  - socmag 10y ago
    And rewrite history to suit their own narrative along the way
swift 10y ago
I really don't see it. People can still buy Bluetooth headphones from any company and there's no Apple tax on those. I realize a lot of people here have different experiences, but among my friends, virtually everyone has switched to Bluetooth anyway except for listening at home or in the office. Not having a cord is just so freeing. Not to mention the point made elsewhere in this thread that they bundle the adapter for people who still prefer wired.
- Kadin 10y ago
  I think there's some sample bias going on, because I basically don't know anyone who uses wireless headphones, except for Bluetooth earpieces that are increasingly socially unacceptable for use anywhere other than in a car. Gym? Cheap wired headphones. Work? Good wired headphones (or headset). Etc. I even own a pair of wireless Bluetooth headphones (nice onces, Sony's) but it's a pain in the ass to keep them charged and deal with pairing/unpairing them to various devices, or connecting to the wrong device when I want to use them with something else, or get them to work with various laptops' shitty Bluetooth drivers, when I can just use a pair of decent wired headphones and stick them into the ubiquitous 1/8" jack and move on with my life.
  - probablybanned 10y ago
    The latter set of annoyances are of course what Apple are intending to solve with the W1/AirPods -- intelligent switching between all iCloud devices without re-pairing. I personally favor Bluetooth headphones even with all the annoyance because as bad as it is, cords are even worse. For those who feel differently, I suspect they'll either use the bundled earpods or just leave the lightning adapter attached to their best pair of headphones and move on with their lives. Maybe I'm wrong and everyone except me is rotating five pairs of headphones between six different devices on a regular basis, but it seems like just another case of piling on to resist change.

by Kadin 10y ago

cezary 10y ago

This is how I see it. There's no mention of Airpods using bluetooth, I'm betting that W1 chip is using a proprietary wireless protocol that keeps other manufacturers from easily/cheaply creating wireless headphones or using these wireless headphones on other devices.

SCdF 10y ago
Exactly. And then at some point they'll have the "courage" to drop bluetooth as well.
mulmen 10y ago
From the Apple webpage: http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods Connections AirPods: Bluetooth
WillPostForFood 10y ago
Apple says they are bluetooth here: http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods

eridius 10y ago

> aside from the very obvious one: they're going to make a shitload of money by forcing everyone to buy new headphones You obviously have no idea how Apple works. Apple would never in a million years make a user-hostile decision like this simply to collect royalties. They hold user experience to be sacred, and the fact that they're making this move now means they think that, at least in the long term, this will provide for a better overall user experience, despite the pain of the transition. Everybody complained when Apple ditched the 30pin connector for Lightning too, basically all of the same arguments here (e.g. "Apple just wants everybody to buy new accessories"), but it turned out to be the right move. Making this argument again over the headphone port just means you don't know Apple and you don't know history.

chetanahuja 10y ago
"You obviously have no idea how Apple works." I have no comment on how Apple actually works or doesn't work but I admire the marketing acumen of a company when a random internet user can argue so passionately about eternal goodness of the company. Especially a company that's about as secretive in it's actual operations as nation-state level intelligence agencies.
- eridius 10y ago
  > eternal goodness of the company Who's talking about goodness? I'm talking about the values that Apple has, and how your claim is a gross violation of those values. I didn't say Apple was "good", however you want to define that. User experience is but one facet of the whole, though it's an important one. And if you're trying to dismiss my arguments on the ground that I'm a "random internet user", then you have to dismiss literally every single comment made in this thread, or any HN thread, including yours.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  In fairness, Apple mostly has an image of being "the company random cranky internet commenters accuse of horrible things, which later turns out not to have done the horrible things the cranky internet commenters accused them of". This is a repetitive cycle. See it happening right in this thread with the "Apple invented a proprietary wireless protocol to DRM all the music, close the analog hole and make you license their tech" stuff. When... it's just Bluetooth. Same thing happened when they put the microphone and volume controls in the iPhone earbuds; people said it was a way to insert a secret "DRM chip" and force only Apple-approved headphones to be able to listen to music. So if nothing else, the weight of history is against your "just did this to charge people money" argument. Plus, y'know, the adapter's literally included in the box.
  - chetanahuja 10y ago
    weight of history is against your "just did this to charge people money" argument I had no comment on any of that. In fact I started my comment with "I have no comment on how Apple actually works or doesn't work"

bphogan 10y ago

So including the $9 adapter in the box is just a token gesture so they can pretend to care about legacy things? I dunno - if they were really in this for making you buy new headphones, they'd not bundle the adapter, like they did in the past when they switched from 30-pin to lightening.

mightykan 10y ago
They included that adapter this year but is it going to be there next year? Is the next phone going to have the Lightning wired headphone, too? Apple's like the empire. They _will_ be altering the deal.
- socmag 10y ago
  And rewrite history to suit their own narrative along the way

swift 10y ago

I really don't see it. People can still buy Bluetooth headphones from any company and there's no Apple tax on those. I realize a lot of people here have different experiences, but among my friends, virtually everyone has switched to Bluetooth anyway except for listening at home or in the office. Not having a cord is just so freeing. Not to mention the point made elsewhere in this thread that they bundle the adapter for people who still prefer wired.

Kadin 10y ago
I think there's some sample bias going on, because I basically don't know anyone who uses wireless headphones, except for Bluetooth earpieces that are increasingly socially unacceptable for use anywhere other than in a car. Gym? Cheap wired headphones. Work? Good wired headphones (or headset). Etc. I even own a pair of wireless Bluetooth headphones (nice onces, Sony's) but it's a pain in the ass to keep them charged and deal with pairing/unpairing them to various devices, or connecting to the wrong device when I want to use them with something else, or get them to work with various laptops' shitty Bluetooth drivers, when I can just use a pair of decent wired headphones and stick them into the ubiquitous 1/8" jack and move on with my life.
- probablybanned 10y ago
  The latter set of annoyances are of course what Apple are intending to solve with the W1/AirPods -- intelligent switching between all iCloud devices without re-pairing. I personally favor Bluetooth headphones even with all the annoyance because as bad as it is, cords are even worse. For those who feel differently, I suspect they'll either use the bundled earpods or just leave the lightning adapter attached to their best pair of headphones and move on with their lives. Maybe I'm wrong and everyone except me is rotating five pairs of headphones between six different devices on a regular basis, but it seems like just another case of piling on to resist change.