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I think that removing the headphone jack could be justified if they were moving to an open standard. But instead they're moving to Lightning.

niftich 10y ago
There is an open standard; it's the analog headphone jack. </sarcasm> But there is no 'other' open standard yet, although Intel and other vendors are pondering it [1]. This doesn't mean that HDMI or DisplayPort can't be shoehorned to do it and you can't carry those over the USB type-C plug, but they're meant for other things. This type of 'let's invent one that meets our needs slightly better than the 5 others' is what leads to standards proliferating (and I'll avoid linking the xkcd). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12305410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12305410
- comex 10y ago
  USB audio has existed for decades and can be used with type-C like any other USB class. Intel's thing may provide improvements but it's hardly necessary.
  - niftich 10y ago
    This is correct, it's called 'Audio Device Class', specs here [1][2]. It's said that the new enhancements that Intel is pondering add power-management features to this spec, but I can't find much documentation on it, other than rumours. [1] http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/audio10.pdf http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/audio10.pdf [2] http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/frmts10.pdf http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/frmts10.pdf
- karmelapple 10y ago
  What about Bluetooth audio? That is an open standard.
  - eridius 10y ago
    It's not a very good one. Audio quality sucks and bluetooth has a lot of issues. But if you want to use it, Apple's always supported Bluetooth headphones.
  - niftich 10y ago
    I was limiting my comparison to wired audio interconnects. It may be that from many people's point of view, the user experience is comparable and/or better. But it's accomplished using a fundamentally different mechanism. I wanted better apples; even if some oranges are tasty too.
- jolux 10y ago
  The open standard is Bluetooth...
- theshrike79 10y ago
  The current 4-pole headphone jack used in mobile phones is hardly a standard. At least both iOS and Android use their own flavour when doing anything more complex than play/pause.
  - niftich 10y ago
    They're standards, there's just too many of them! [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_connector_(audio)#TRRS_standards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_connector_(audio)#TRRS_s...
egypturnash 10y ago
They are. They're moving to Bluetooth. If you don't want those then you can get a Lightning adaptor. Edit: no they're not, I was skimming the news too hard. Oops. Well I guess they're trying to fix the Bluetooth latency everyone is complaining about with their existing stuff then. In a few years I'm sure Apple will find a wireless charging solution they like, and then they'll drop the Lightning connector as well. I cannot even begin to imagine the hue and cry that one's gonna cause.
- jonknee 10y ago
  They're not moving to Bluetooth. They're packaging Lightning headphones in the box and announced their own wireless earbuds that are not Bluetooth. Update: as noted below, they do use Bluetooth though that's not in the marketing pitch. They don't promise compatibility outside of Apple devices though so who knows if it's based on a standard profile.
  - strange_quark 10y ago
    I guess there's no way to know for sure right now, but it seems like the Airpods probably do in fact run over Bluetooth since they'll work with existing iPhones and Macs. Maybe they're using Wifi and building on top of Airdrop, but that seems like excessive power consumption for tiny headphones. I'd bet they're using Bluetooth 4.x + some proprietary magic to get them to pair super easily.
  - awj 10y ago
    > They're packaging Lightning headphones in the box and announced their own wireless earbuds that are not Bluetooth. Have a source for that? That they claim it works with existing Macs kind of implies that it uses Bluetooth.
  - theli0nheart 10y ago
    This is not true. They are Bluetooth. See http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods, then scroll down to "Tech Specs". Connections AirPods: Bluetooth
  - 10y ago
josu 10y ago
>But instead they're moving to Lightning. Are they? Because none of their computer nor laptops have a lightning connector.

niftich 10y ago

There is an open standard; it's the analog headphone jack. </sarcasm> But there is no 'other' open standard yet, although Intel and other vendors are pondering it [1]. This doesn't mean that HDMI or DisplayPort can't be shoehorned to do it and you can't carry those over the USB type-C plug, but they're meant for other things. This type of 'let's invent one that meets our needs slightly better than the 5 others' is what leads to standards proliferating (and I'll avoid linking the xkcd). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12305410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12305410

comex 10y ago
USB audio has existed for decades and can be used with type-C like any other USB class. Intel's thing may provide improvements but it's hardly necessary.
- niftich 10y ago
  This is correct, it's called 'Audio Device Class', specs here [1][2]. It's said that the new enhancements that Intel is pondering add power-management features to this spec, but I can't find much documentation on it, other than rumours. [1] http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/audio10.pdf http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/audio10.pdf [2] http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/frmts10.pdf http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/frmts10.pdf
karmelapple 10y ago
What about Bluetooth audio? That is an open standard.
- eridius 10y ago
  It's not a very good one. Audio quality sucks and bluetooth has a lot of issues. But if you want to use it, Apple's always supported Bluetooth headphones.
- niftich 10y ago
  I was limiting my comparison to wired audio interconnects. It may be that from many people's point of view, the user experience is comparable and/or better. But it's accomplished using a fundamentally different mechanism. I wanted better apples; even if some oranges are tasty too.
jolux 10y ago
The open standard is Bluetooth...
theshrike79 10y ago
The current 4-pole headphone jack used in mobile phones is hardly a standard. At least both iOS and Android use their own flavour when doing anything more complex than play/pause.
- niftich 10y ago
  They're standards, there's just too many of them! [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_connector_(audio)#TRRS_standards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_connector_(audio)#TRRS_s...

egypturnash 10y ago

They are. They're moving to Bluetooth. If you don't want those then you can get a Lightning adaptor. Edit: no they're not, I was skimming the news too hard. Oops. Well I guess they're trying to fix the Bluetooth latency everyone is complaining about with their existing stuff then. In a few years I'm sure Apple will find a wireless charging solution they like, and then they'll drop the Lightning connector as well. I cannot even begin to imagine the hue and cry that one's gonna cause.

jonknee 10y ago
They're not moving to Bluetooth. They're packaging Lightning headphones in the box and announced their own wireless earbuds that are not Bluetooth. Update: as noted below, they do use Bluetooth though that's not in the marketing pitch. They don't promise compatibility outside of Apple devices though so who knows if it's based on a standard profile.
- strange_quark 10y ago
  I guess there's no way to know for sure right now, but it seems like the Airpods probably do in fact run over Bluetooth since they'll work with existing iPhones and Macs. Maybe they're using Wifi and building on top of Airdrop, but that seems like excessive power consumption for tiny headphones. I'd bet they're using Bluetooth 4.x + some proprietary magic to get them to pair super easily.
- awj 10y ago
  > They're packaging Lightning headphones in the box and announced their own wireless earbuds that are not Bluetooth. Have a source for that? That they claim it works with existing Macs kind of implies that it uses Bluetooth.
- theli0nheart 10y ago
  This is not true. They are Bluetooth. See http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods, then scroll down to "Tech Specs". Connections AirPods: Bluetooth
- 10y ago

josu 10y ago

>But instead they're moving to Lightning. Are they? Because none of their computer nor laptops have a lightning connector.