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If you're happy with that kind of marginal existence, then that's great. It works for you. I don't want to lose touch with people, because I don't view my con

by Frondo 10y ago

If you're happy with that kind of marginal existence, then that's great. It works for you. I don't want to lose touch with people, because I don't view my contact with people as being part of a "hivemind". I view my time on Earth as one marked by civic and human engagement, where I want to share my ideas, bounce them off other people, strive to improve my community and the world, etc. Stepping away from that to be a hermit, intellectually speaking? No thank you--there's too much living to do. Besides, I realize that you don't really know me at all, and are just offering your comments out in a general sense, but it's pretty presumptuous to assert that people who want to live in a connected world are less likely to think interesting thoughts or develop their own sense of taste. Silly, too.

igor47 10y ago
> I view my time on Earth as one marked by civic and human engagement, where I want to share my ideas, bounce them off other people, strive to improve my community and the world, etc. I respect that sentiment, and agree with it. However, I think that it's much harder to do what you're talking about online. I would go so far as to say that the tendency of the internet is to encourage the "hivemind" and other bad practices. See, e.g., the eternal September, endless takes on how to moderate forums, algorithmic content filtering, etc... I think the internet works great for making transactions between total strangers possible. I can collaborate on an open-source project or buy some widget. But I think that to really connect with people or improve my community or to delve deep into ideas, IRL is where it's at.
- vertex-four 10y ago
  Note that the internet doesn't necessarily amount to public forums - there's many reasonable topic-specific semi-private groups all over the internet. Some of my best friends and even partners I've met through those, and I'd like to think we've made each other's lives better, or at least happier.
HSO 10y ago
Touchy much? None of the little tricks or habits I listed above leads to a "marginal existence" or makes you a "hermit". They serve to cut out the middleman, or to minimize my data trail, given that I still want the benefits of technology. Why should Google/Gmail be allowed to analyze my communications with my friends or colleagues, esp. if I'm not even using Gmail? Why should Netflix be allowed to record what I watch, when, and in what order? Why should Facebook be notified that I read article X, esp. since I am not even on their network?! What you said therefore makes no sense to me, it's a false dichotomy. And before you congratulate yourself publicly on your own "civic and human engagement", consider that even just ten years ago people managed to be engaged without apprising Google, Facebook, et al. about their every impulse, incessantly. Yes, you could watch a DVD, read a book, or talk to your parents and no Evil Corp. was silently adding that to its Stasi dossier about you and your predilections. Somehow life went on anyway, and nobody called you a "hermit, intellectually speaking" for that. Talk about resetting expectations, jeez…
- Frondo 10y ago
  Hey, again, if living that kind of marginal existence ("I avoid the web as much as possible" ... and "Be offline as much as possible" ... and "If they insist on exposing me to their "smoke" (or, negative externalities), then I cut the contact.") suits you, that's great. I commend you, and I hope you continue to get everything out of life you want. I'm not satisfied with that kind of inconvenience. These are, ultimately, social issues, not technical ones. For me, the solution must come from society (and consequently, become enshrined in law). Dodging the big picture privacy issue with "avoiding the web as much as possible" and "cutting the contact" doesn't work for me. EDIT: Whoa! You made some pretty big edits there! Mark those puppies next time, mister!
ryandrake 10y ago
It's a stretch to call that a "marginal existence". If that were true, most of us were living a marginal existence 30 years ago. Almost nobody was "online" or used E-mail, yet somehow, by some great miracle, we all kept contact with friends and family, had social connections and lives, talked to our neighbors, etc. You don't need Facebook to have a social life.

by Frondo 10y ago

igor47 10y ago

> I view my time on Earth as one marked by civic and human engagement, where I want to share my ideas, bounce them off other people, strive to improve my community and the world, etc. I respect that sentiment, and agree with it. However, I think that it's much harder to do what you're talking about online. I would go so far as to say that the tendency of the internet is to encourage the "hivemind" and other bad practices. See, e.g., the eternal September, endless takes on how to moderate forums, algorithmic content filtering, etc... I think the internet works great for making transactions between total strangers possible. I can collaborate on an open-source project or buy some widget. But I think that to really connect with people or improve my community or to delve deep into ideas, IRL is where it's at.

vertex-four 10y ago
Note that the internet doesn't necessarily amount to public forums - there's many reasonable topic-specific semi-private groups all over the internet. Some of my best friends and even partners I've met through those, and I'd like to think we've made each other's lives better, or at least happier.

HSO 10y ago

Touchy much? None of the little tricks or habits I listed above leads to a "marginal existence" or makes you a "hermit". They serve to cut out the middleman, or to minimize my data trail, given that I still want the benefits of technology. Why should Google/Gmail be allowed to analyze my communications with my friends or colleagues, esp. if I'm not even using Gmail? Why should Netflix be allowed to record what I watch, when, and in what order? Why should Facebook be notified that I read article X, esp. since I am not even on their network?! What you said therefore makes no sense to me, it's a false dichotomy. And before you congratulate yourself publicly on your own "civic and human engagement", consider that even just ten years ago people managed to be engaged without apprising Google, Facebook, et al. about their every impulse, incessantly. Yes, you could watch a DVD, read a book, or talk to your parents and no Evil Corp. was silently adding that to its Stasi dossier about you and your predilections. Somehow life went on anyway, and nobody called you a "hermit, intellectually speaking" for that. Talk about resetting expectations, jeez…

Frondo 10y ago
Hey, again, if living that kind of marginal existence ("I avoid the web as much as possible" ... and "Be offline as much as possible" ... and "If they insist on exposing me to their "smoke" (or, negative externalities), then I cut the contact.") suits you, that's great. I commend you, and I hope you continue to get everything out of life you want. I'm not satisfied with that kind of inconvenience. These are, ultimately, social issues, not technical ones. For me, the solution must come from society (and consequently, become enshrined in law). Dodging the big picture privacy issue with "avoiding the web as much as possible" and "cutting the contact" doesn't work for me. EDIT: Whoa! You made some pretty big edits there! Mark those puppies next time, mister!

ryandrake 10y ago

It's a stretch to call that a "marginal existence". If that were true, most of us were living a marginal existence 30 years ago. Almost nobody was "online" or used E-mail, yet somehow, by some great miracle, we all kept contact with friends and family, had social connections and lives, talked to our neighbors, etc. You don't need Facebook to have a social life.