8 ms·

And to say it was about "Courage". No, we all understand that it's a way for them to make more money selling their horrible headphones and licensing lightning t

And to say it was about "Courage". No, we all understand that it's a way for them to make more money selling their horrible headphones and licensing lightning to headphone makers.

vhost- 10y ago
Why would they include a 3.5 mm adapter then?
- strictnein 10y ago
  As a stop gap. Also, it's not clear whether or not the included headphones are 3.5mm or lightning, so they might simply have to include one.
  - jakobegger 10y ago
    In the keynote they said the included headphones are lightning.
  - mcphage 10y ago
    The included headphones are Lightning.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - cm2187 10y ago
    I won't even touch a USB ethernet dongle for laptops, let alone a dongle for my iphone. The headphone connector is already pressed close to breaking point in my pocket, I can't have something even bigger sticking out of the phone in a tight pocket.
    - heartbreak 10y ago
      > in a tight pocket Doesn't sound like an Apple problem to me.
      - jethro_tell 10y ago
        Yeah, just hold it different.
      - throwanem 10y ago
        I don't know. It seems reasonable to imagine the drainpipe jeans crowd has a pretty solid overlap with Apple's customer base.
      - ariabuckles 10y ago
        It is very hard to find non-tight pockets on women's clothing, if you're lucky enough to find pockets at all.
      - cm2187 10y ago
        Should be pretty much the case of anyone sitting with an iphone in his/her trouser pocket. Unless you wear rapper baggy pants!
    - comex 10y ago
      You could always use wireless headphones instead - Apple's or someone else's.
    - eridius 10y ago
      So use wireless headphones, or get a pair of lightning headphones. It's not really clear to me what the issue is, though, since the dongle can just be treated as an extension to the headphone cable. If anything, it should be harder to break, because the headphone jack part is on a flexible cable, and the part that's attached to the phone is the fairly durable Lightning connector (whereas 3.5mm male connectors are often somewhat flimsy).
      - cm2187 10y ago
        Except that it is a non flexible extension that sticks out, in addition of the jack itself which already sticks out. I won't go wireless. The last thing I want is another battery to manage, and I do care about music quality. I always saw the iphone as an ipod with internet. I stashed a spare iphone 6s so I don't need to change my habits for another 1-3 years. Then I guess I will have to learn how to use my phone again by switching to Android. I'd be curious if the 6s starts trading at a premium to the 7. That was the case of the Galaxy Tab 1 at one point, bigger screen, better battery, looks like people preferred it to the Galaxy Tab 2.
        eridius 10y ago
        A headphone male connector is already a non-flexible thing that sticks out. I don't see how the lightning adaptor is any different in that regard. It's a bit of non-flexible stuff that sticks out, attached to a flexible cable. The biggest difference is the cable then has another short non-flexible bit in it, but nobody complained about having short non-flexible portions of cable when headphones started including volume controls on the cable (it's just on a different part of the cable). > I do care about music quality It seems that AirPods aren't bluetooth but are instead something else. I'd expect the audio quality to be better than bluetooth. But I guess we have to wait until people have actually tried them out to determine how good it is. > Then I guess I will have to learn how to use my phone again by switching to Android. I do not believe for a second that you're going to actually change platforms simply to have an audio jack without a dongle. I bet in 1–3 years you're going to realize that there's a plethora of lightning headphones to choose from, along with an adaptor that lets you use headphones and charge simultaneously, and you'll stop thinking about this change as a problem.
  - eridius 10y ago
    The included EarPods are lightning. Specifically, it's http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMTN2AM/A/earpods-with-lightning-connector http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMTN2AM/A/earpods-with-lig...
  - newman314 10y ago
    It appears that the included headphones are Lightning from what I could see of the video.
- slg 10y ago
  Apple of all companies knows that a dongle isn't a viable long term solution for a problem like that. They included it to ease the transition, not as a replacement.
- jayd16 10y ago
  To help quell the shit storm that would happen if they didn't include it.
  - scottmf 10y ago
    Ah so what you're saying is they do some things for profit, and other things for PR reasons. Interesting.
j28xfc5qsc 10y ago
I guess some people will buy lightning headphones instead of bluetooth, but it should be a small minority.
- kennywinker 10y ago
  You see the prices on lightning headphones? Cheapest one Apple offers is $150. Searching for best cheap bluetooth headphones finds a bunch clustered around $100. I lose headphones like crazy, and I'm not an audiophile, so my average spend on headphones is under $20
  - AlexandrB 10y ago
    I use (and keep) my headphones for years and I am an audiophile. This is a non-starter for me as well. I don't want to buy new $200 headphones after Apple inevitably obsoletes lighting and Bluetooth leaves a lot to be desired in terms of lag, pairing, charging, and audio quality.
    - theshrike79 10y ago
      Apple stuck with the Dock connector for a decade. Lightning will most likely stay for at least that if not longer. Also $200 isn't that expensive when talking about headphones.
      - phinnaeus 10y ago
        Normally headphones come with a connector that is ubiquitous instead of proprietary, though.
      - pritambaral 10y ago
        >> I don't want to buy new $200 headphones > Also $200 isn't that expensive But forcing a $200 purchase is. Your parent already has good headphones they like, has had them for years, and none of those headphones needs replacing because they broke down or are obsoleted. The $200 purchase your parent mentions is because of Apple obsoleting something.
sodafountan 10y ago
While from a financial standpoint this would make sense, most of the guys making the executive decisions at Apple are design focused and oriented. Dropping the headphone jack differentiates Apple even more from its competition, makes the phone sleeker, helps with water proofing, makes the wireless headphones more appealing (which not only act as headphones but also communication devices). This was much more than just a financial move for Apple, and in my opinion it looks to be a smart one.
- slantedview 10y ago
  It's only smart on one hand (for the reasons you mention). On the other hand users will be pissed off at losing the convenience (yes, convenience) of plug and play headphones, along with the many other reasons why wired > wireless. It may be a smart move in the end, but it's not obviously so at this point.
- guelo 10y ago
  > makes the phone sleeker It's the exact same size as the 6s.
  - coryfklein 10y ago
    The word sleek is unrelated to size, it refers to having an elegant, streamlined shape of design. Removing the 3.5mm jack does allow for a more sleek design.
    - AlexandrB 10y ago
      The camera bump is a huge wart on the design, but they kept that and did not make the phone thicker to compensate. I question this rationale.
      - phinnaeus 10y ago
        This is what I'm talking about. I don't really use my phone to play music that much (although it is definitely a non-zero amount). The dealbreaker for me is that they've made a device that doesn't lay flat without a case. Although, since it has that ugly bump on the back, it's not like I'd want to have the phone outside a case anyway. Actually, it's not really about appearances for me. It's just that it wouldn't sit flat. Like a table with 1 leg that's an inch longer than the others at a shitty diner.
coryfklein 10y ago
I saw it more as a push to eliminate the cord from headphones entirely. I personally hate the cord, but I hate charging bluetooth headphones even more. I hope eliminating the jack will result in better wireless headphones, but I'm not super confident that it will.
snom380 10y ago
The future is bluetooth, and they're not making licensing fees off that.
wmeredith 10y ago
That "courage" bit may be the most pretentious and ridiculous thing I've heard Apple say to date, and that's clearing some high bars. They're a consumer electronics company, not doctors without borders.
- heartbreak 10y ago
  I'm neither Apple nor Doctors without Boarders and I can still have courage. To suggest otherwise would imply the relative privation fallacy.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

And to say it was about "Courage". No, we all understand that it's a way for them to make more money selling their horrible headphones and licensing lightning to headphone makers.

vhost- 10y ago

Why would they include a 3.5 mm adapter then?

strictnein 10y ago
As a stop gap. Also, it's not clear whether or not the included headphones are 3.5mm or lightning, so they might simply have to include one.
- jakobegger 10y ago
  In the keynote they said the included headphones are lightning.
- mcphage 10y ago
  The included headphones are Lightning.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- cm2187 10y ago
  I won't even touch a USB ethernet dongle for laptops, let alone a dongle for my iphone. The headphone connector is already pressed close to breaking point in my pocket, I can't have something even bigger sticking out of the phone in a tight pocket.
  - heartbreak 10y ago
    > in a tight pocket Doesn't sound like an Apple problem to me.
    - jethro_tell 10y ago
      Yeah, just hold it different.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      I don't know. It seems reasonable to imagine the drainpipe jeans crowd has a pretty solid overlap with Apple's customer base.
    - ariabuckles 10y ago
      It is very hard to find non-tight pockets on women's clothing, if you're lucky enough to find pockets at all.
    - cm2187 10y ago
      Should be pretty much the case of anyone sitting with an iphone in his/her trouser pocket. Unless you wear rapper baggy pants!
  - comex 10y ago
    You could always use wireless headphones instead - Apple's or someone else's.
  - eridius 10y ago
    So use wireless headphones, or get a pair of lightning headphones. It's not really clear to me what the issue is, though, since the dongle can just be treated as an extension to the headphone cable. If anything, it should be harder to break, because the headphone jack part is on a flexible cable, and the part that's attached to the phone is the fairly durable Lightning connector (whereas 3.5mm male connectors are often somewhat flimsy).
    - cm2187 10y ago
      Except that it is a non flexible extension that sticks out, in addition of the jack itself which already sticks out. I won't go wireless. The last thing I want is another battery to manage, and I do care about music quality. I always saw the iphone as an ipod with internet. I stashed a spare iphone 6s so I don't need to change my habits for another 1-3 years. Then I guess I will have to learn how to use my phone again by switching to Android. I'd be curious if the 6s starts trading at a premium to the 7. That was the case of the Galaxy Tab 1 at one point, bigger screen, better battery, looks like people preferred it to the Galaxy Tab 2.
      - eridius 10y ago
        A headphone male connector is already a non-flexible thing that sticks out. I don't see how the lightning adaptor is any different in that regard. It's a bit of non-flexible stuff that sticks out, attached to a flexible cable. The biggest difference is the cable then has another short non-flexible bit in it, but nobody complained about having short non-flexible portions of cable when headphones started including volume controls on the cable (it's just on a different part of the cable). > I do care about music quality It seems that AirPods aren't bluetooth but are instead something else. I'd expect the audio quality to be better than bluetooth. But I guess we have to wait until people have actually tried them out to determine how good it is. > Then I guess I will have to learn how to use my phone again by switching to Android. I do not believe for a second that you're going to actually change platforms simply to have an audio jack without a dongle. I bet in 1–3 years you're going to realize that there's a plethora of lightning headphones to choose from, along with an adaptor that lets you use headphones and charge simultaneously, and you'll stop thinking about this change as a problem.
- eridius 10y ago
  The included EarPods are lightning. Specifically, it's http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMTN2AM/A/earpods-with-lightning-connector http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMTN2AM/A/earpods-with-lig...
- newman314 10y ago
  It appears that the included headphones are Lightning from what I could see of the video.
slg 10y ago
Apple of all companies knows that a dongle isn't a viable long term solution for a problem like that. They included it to ease the transition, not as a replacement.
jayd16 10y ago
To help quell the shit storm that would happen if they didn't include it.
- scottmf 10y ago
  Ah so what you're saying is they do some things for profit, and other things for PR reasons. Interesting.

j28xfc5qsc 10y ago

I guess some people will buy lightning headphones instead of bluetooth, but it should be a small minority.

kennywinker 10y ago
You see the prices on lightning headphones? Cheapest one Apple offers is $150. Searching for best cheap bluetooth headphones finds a bunch clustered around $100. I lose headphones like crazy, and I'm not an audiophile, so my average spend on headphones is under $20
- AlexandrB 10y ago
  I use (and keep) my headphones for years and I am an audiophile. This is a non-starter for me as well. I don't want to buy new $200 headphones after Apple inevitably obsoletes lighting and Bluetooth leaves a lot to be desired in terms of lag, pairing, charging, and audio quality.
  - theshrike79 10y ago
    Apple stuck with the Dock connector for a decade. Lightning will most likely stay for at least that if not longer. Also $200 isn't that expensive when talking about headphones.
    - phinnaeus 10y ago
      Normally headphones come with a connector that is ubiquitous instead of proprietary, though.
    - pritambaral 10y ago
      >> I don't want to buy new $200 headphones > Also $200 isn't that expensive But forcing a $200 purchase is. Your parent already has good headphones they like, has had them for years, and none of those headphones needs replacing because they broke down or are obsoleted. The $200 purchase your parent mentions is because of Apple obsoleting something.

sodafountan 10y ago

While from a financial standpoint this would make sense, most of the guys making the executive decisions at Apple are design focused and oriented. Dropping the headphone jack differentiates Apple even more from its competition, makes the phone sleeker, helps with water proofing, makes the wireless headphones more appealing (which not only act as headphones but also communication devices). This was much more than just a financial move for Apple, and in my opinion it looks to be a smart one.

slantedview 10y ago
It's only smart on one hand (for the reasons you mention). On the other hand users will be pissed off at losing the convenience (yes, convenience) of plug and play headphones, along with the many other reasons why wired > wireless. It may be a smart move in the end, but it's not obviously so at this point.
guelo 10y ago
> makes the phone sleeker It's the exact same size as the 6s.
- coryfklein 10y ago
  The word sleek is unrelated to size, it refers to having an elegant, streamlined shape of design. Removing the 3.5mm jack does allow for a more sleek design.
  - AlexandrB 10y ago
    The camera bump is a huge wart on the design, but they kept that and did not make the phone thicker to compensate. I question this rationale.
    - phinnaeus 10y ago
      This is what I'm talking about. I don't really use my phone to play music that much (although it is definitely a non-zero amount). The dealbreaker for me is that they've made a device that doesn't lay flat without a case. Although, since it has that ugly bump on the back, it's not like I'd want to have the phone outside a case anyway. Actually, it's not really about appearances for me. It's just that it wouldn't sit flat. Like a table with 1 leg that's an inch longer than the others at a shitty diner.

coryfklein 10y ago

I saw it more as a push to eliminate the cord from headphones entirely. I personally hate the cord, but I hate charging bluetooth headphones even more. I hope eliminating the jack will result in better wireless headphones, but I'm not super confident that it will.

snom380 10y ago

The future is bluetooth, and they're not making licensing fees off that.

wmeredith 10y ago

That "courage" bit may be the most pretentious and ridiculous thing I've heard Apple say to date, and that's clearing some high bars. They're a consumer electronics company, not doctors without borders.

heartbreak 10y ago
I'm neither Apple nor Doctors without Boarders and I can still have courage. To suggest otherwise would imply the relative privation fallacy.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]