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I can't believe that it's coincidence that every person I've ever come across that has been proclaimed a genius at whatever has had this very same sentiment to

I can't believe that it's coincidence that every person I've ever come across that has been proclaimed a genius at whatever has had this very same sentiment to express. There was a grain of talent and a moment of inspiration that led to a dogged pursuit of their interest. People are quick to write it off as "oh, they had talent" or "oh they were a genius", but I'm reasonably confident given the number of amazing people I've met in this industry, everyone (well, everyone that's not an egotist) that's ever had this label attributed to them will attest: The talent comes from the countless hours of work, effort and frustration put into realizing that talent. It's only once we've overcome this effort and frustration and others think we make it look easy that they say "Oh, but you had talent"... sure, but I didn't have any to start with. Now after 10,000 hours of practice, of countless nights of going to bed frustrated that I couldn't understand something or make my fingers work right, of the number of times I played until my fingers and lips bled all in the pursuit of mastering whatever it is I'm trying to master. Only then does everyone see this talent. I don't see talent, all I see is the hard work to get where I am now and how far I still have left to go to consider myself part of the circle I still think are better or more accomplished than me. Any "talent" I may exhibit is the product of the pursuit of my interest. My talent, my genius if you will is nothing more than this. I am not a genius. I am no more intelligent than has the capacity of any other that has the tenacity to stick with it through the basics and learn the fundamentals and go through the mental and physical pain that I have endured to get here.

seizethecheese 10y ago
Perhaps true geniuses know the social value of humility.
- balabaster 10y ago
  ...or perhaps they're totally unaware of the existence of genius. Perhaps if they realized what they were attempting required genius they'd never have attempted it in the first place for fear that they didn't have the genius necessary to succeed.
- sovietmudkipz 10y ago
  > True geniuses know the social value of humility. Wouldn't you have to be a genius to be able to make such an evaluation?
  - Retra 10y ago
    That's not an evaluation, it's just a statement. Some genius could have just told them that.
- AStellersSeaCow 10y ago
  Haha, no way. I've worked with or met a half dozen MacArthur fellows, and none of them were shy about bringing up that fact. You could argue that MacArthur selects for self-promoting geniuses, but such creatures clearly do exist.
  - seizethecheese 10y ago
    Exception that proves the rule. How do you know if someone you met went to Harvard? They already told you.
    - balabaster 10y ago
      This I've found over the years is more a product of insecurity than of ego or genius. People quick to tout their alumnus or IQ... or indeed any other measure of intelligence in such a manner are looking for validation and acceptance of their superiority because it satisfies their insecurity. Though, I would have given my right arm to go to MIT earlier in my life, just for access to MITs professors, forget the degree.
ARothfusz 10y ago
Genius does not emerge solely from tenacity. Genius comes from figuring out new things to try in pursuit of a goal over a long period of time. If you tried something and failed, how many permutations could you go through before you ran out of ideas of what to try? Could you do it for _years_? Could you keep trying, learning from your mistakes for a lifetime, until you reached your goal? Maybe you're a genius then.
- balabaster 10y ago
  Why not? Anyone could if the pursuit was worth it to them. All it takes is being able to look at things and wonder "how could I apply this along with what I already know to achieve that goal?" Eventually you'll have some permutation of ideas that work. Even if you put it down and come back to it many years later. Maybe the goal isn't obvious until one day all the ideas come together to solve a problem that you need solved right now that yesterday you'd never even had cause to think about. That doesn't negate the work you did learning those things. "Everyone is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life thinking it's stupid." - Einstein
ThePawnBreak 10y ago
There is always a bell curve. It's more obvious in fields where people start practicing from a tender age, like chess or music, where you start learning when you're around 4. There are many who dedicate their lives to such pursuits, but very few become Kasparov or Mozart. The others still become extremely good, but not the best, and most are forgotten by history.
- balabaster 10y ago
  But to be honest, you don't need to be Mozart to be considered a musical genius today... There are a dozen orchestral genii alive today that could easily outstrip the genius of Mozart when you compare the body of their orchestral work. Yet when these composers are dead and gone, 30, 40, 50 years from now, everyone will still be talking about Mozart, and todays better-than-Mozarts will be lost to the sands of time. It's quite sad how biased our filters are really.
imgabe 10y ago
Nobody ever mentions the counterexample, assuming it exists - the person who spends thousands of hours practicing but never gets anywhere. How many Salieris are there for each Mozart? There's definitely a need for hard work in order to have success, but perhaps there's something necessary that has to be present for the hard work to build upon. Maybe that something is "genius".
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  Hard work is overrated. What you really want is curiosity. You can refine something with hard work, but broadening your horizons comes from a desire to see what can be done. Basically, do you want to create a refined version of what's already been done, or do you want to explore what's possible. You can alternate between them to push in both directions, but the mindset is different.
  - AStellersSeaCow 10y ago
    >Hard work is overrated. What you really want is curiosity. This is BS, and the kind of BS that results in lazy entitled adults expecting the world to be their oyster because they have kept their dreamer curiosity intact. Out of the people I've know who are internationally-recognized academics and/or world-class engineers, many are both hard working and creative. Probably the majority of them, in fact. But many more are hard working and not especially creative: they doggedly pursue single lines of inquiry or development, and possibilities for truly new ideas or techniques - not just refinements - are exposed through the intellectual equivalent of brute force. I don't know any internationally-recognized academics or world-class engineers who are creative but not hard working.
    - OneSprings2Mind 10y ago
      Stanislaw Ulam, Louis de Broglie
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
      > "they doggedly pursue single lines of inquiry or development, and possibilities for truly new ideas or techniques" This could easily be attributed to curiosity. Don't dismiss curiosity as something wishy-washy. As I said before, the mindset between hardworking and curious is different. That's not to say pursuing curiosity takes no effort. I'll use a musician analogy to explain. A hardworking musician works hard to master their skill and knowledge with an instrument in order to maximise their abilities. A curious musician by contrast is guided by much broader principles, including a greater focus on sound rather than their personal skill. A playing mistake that produces an interesting result is not something to be eliminated by refinement, but instead is the opening of a new avenue of inquiry. It helps to be open to interesting mistakes, and this is not something that is easy to do when you're hyper focused on perfecting yourself. In other words, spending energy is necessary to get a fuller understanding of something, but what motivates you does have an impact on the end result. Hard work is driven by ego, playful curiosity less so, but it doesn't mean less energy. Work and play are not the same thing, but what separates them is not the activity per se, but rather the mindset of the individual.

seizethecheese 10y ago

Perhaps true geniuses know the social value of humility.

balabaster 10y ago
...or perhaps they're totally unaware of the existence of genius. Perhaps if they realized what they were attempting required genius they'd never have attempted it in the first place for fear that they didn't have the genius necessary to succeed.
sovietmudkipz 10y ago
> True geniuses know the social value of humility. Wouldn't you have to be a genius to be able to make such an evaluation?
- Retra 10y ago
  That's not an evaluation, it's just a statement. Some genius could have just told them that.
AStellersSeaCow 10y ago
Haha, no way. I've worked with or met a half dozen MacArthur fellows, and none of them were shy about bringing up that fact. You could argue that MacArthur selects for self-promoting geniuses, but such creatures clearly do exist.
- seizethecheese 10y ago
  Exception that proves the rule. How do you know if someone you met went to Harvard? They already told you.
  - balabaster 10y ago
    This I've found over the years is more a product of insecurity than of ego or genius. People quick to tout their alumnus or IQ... or indeed any other measure of intelligence in such a manner are looking for validation and acceptance of their superiority because it satisfies their insecurity. Though, I would have given my right arm to go to MIT earlier in my life, just for access to MITs professors, forget the degree.

ARothfusz 10y ago

Genius does not emerge solely from tenacity. Genius comes from figuring out new things to try in pursuit of a goal over a long period of time. If you tried something and failed, how many permutations could you go through before you ran out of ideas of what to try? Could you do it for _years_? Could you keep trying, learning from your mistakes for a lifetime, until you reached your goal? Maybe you're a genius then.

balabaster 10y ago
Why not? Anyone could if the pursuit was worth it to them. All it takes is being able to look at things and wonder "how could I apply this along with what I already know to achieve that goal?" Eventually you'll have some permutation of ideas that work. Even if you put it down and come back to it many years later. Maybe the goal isn't obvious until one day all the ideas come together to solve a problem that you need solved right now that yesterday you'd never even had cause to think about. That doesn't negate the work you did learning those things. "Everyone is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life thinking it's stupid." - Einstein

ThePawnBreak 10y ago

There is always a bell curve. It's more obvious in fields where people start practicing from a tender age, like chess or music, where you start learning when you're around 4. There are many who dedicate their lives to such pursuits, but very few become Kasparov or Mozart. The others still become extremely good, but not the best, and most are forgotten by history.

balabaster 10y ago
But to be honest, you don't need to be Mozart to be considered a musical genius today... There are a dozen orchestral genii alive today that could easily outstrip the genius of Mozart when you compare the body of their orchestral work. Yet when these composers are dead and gone, 30, 40, 50 years from now, everyone will still be talking about Mozart, and todays better-than-Mozarts will be lost to the sands of time. It's quite sad how biased our filters are really.

imgabe 10y ago

Nobody ever mentions the counterexample, assuming it exists - the person who spends thousands of hours practicing but never gets anywhere. How many Salieris are there for each Mozart? There's definitely a need for hard work in order to have success, but perhaps there's something necessary that has to be present for the hard work to build upon. Maybe that something is "genius".

ZenoArrow 10y ago
Hard work is overrated. What you really want is curiosity. You can refine something with hard work, but broadening your horizons comes from a desire to see what can be done. Basically, do you want to create a refined version of what's already been done, or do you want to explore what's possible. You can alternate between them to push in both directions, but the mindset is different.
- AStellersSeaCow 10y ago
  >Hard work is overrated. What you really want is curiosity. This is BS, and the kind of BS that results in lazy entitled adults expecting the world to be their oyster because they have kept their dreamer curiosity intact. Out of the people I've know who are internationally-recognized academics and/or world-class engineers, many are both hard working and creative. Probably the majority of them, in fact. But many more are hard working and not especially creative: they doggedly pursue single lines of inquiry or development, and possibilities for truly new ideas or techniques - not just refinements - are exposed through the intellectual equivalent of brute force. I don't know any internationally-recognized academics or world-class engineers who are creative but not hard working.
  - OneSprings2Mind 10y ago
    Stanislaw Ulam, Louis de Broglie
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    > "they doggedly pursue single lines of inquiry or development, and possibilities for truly new ideas or techniques" This could easily be attributed to curiosity. Don't dismiss curiosity as something wishy-washy. As I said before, the mindset between hardworking and curious is different. That's not to say pursuing curiosity takes no effort. I'll use a musician analogy to explain. A hardworking musician works hard to master their skill and knowledge with an instrument in order to maximise their abilities. A curious musician by contrast is guided by much broader principles, including a greater focus on sound rather than their personal skill. A playing mistake that produces an interesting result is not something to be eliminated by refinement, but instead is the opening of a new avenue of inquiry. It helps to be open to interesting mistakes, and this is not something that is easy to do when you're hyper focused on perfecting yourself. In other words, spending energy is necessary to get a fuller understanding of something, but what motivates you does have an impact on the end result. Hard work is driven by ego, playful curiosity less so, but it doesn't mean less energy. Work and play are not the same thing, but what separates them is not the activity per se, but rather the mindset of the individual.