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> Russia is already post-industrial state > Russia lost most of its industry in competition with China and hi-tech manufacturing to the West. Congratulaions,

> Russia is already post-industrial state > Russia lost most of its industry in competition with China and hi-tech manufacturing to the West. Congratulaions, you've managed to contradict yourself in one paragraph.

dragonwriter 10y ago
A post-industrial state is one which was dominantly industrial, and has moved on to some other primary basis for its economy, usually because it is engaged in international trade and its comparative advantage is no longer in manufacturing but some other area. Usually, this shift in comparative advantage is reflected in industrial work moving overseas to competitors whose comparative advantage is in that kind of work. So, the two sentences you quote as a supposed contradiction actually support each other, rather than contradicting each other.
- PerfectDlite 10y ago
  > A post-industrial state is one which was dominantly industrial, and has moved on to some other primary basis for its economy, usually because it is engaged in international trade and its comparative advantage is no longer in manufacturing but some other area. In case of Russia it wasn't so, they still struggle to get back to Soviet level of industrialization after USSR fell apart.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > In case of Russia it wasn't so, they still struggle to get back to Soviet level of industrialization after USSR fell apart. The US keeps struggling to maintain or restore its previous level of industrialization, too, even though its unmistakeably a post-industrial state; there's a lot of emotional attachment to industrialization as a source of economic output that lingers even in post-industrial states, so struggling to restore it is a common response to dissatisfactory economic experiences even in post-industrial states. If Russia were struggling to get back to Soviet-era aggregate or per-capita economic output, that would be a difference -- and there certainly was a time, throughout much of the 1990s, where that was the case. But its not now (though Russia has seen a precipitous output drop since the peak in 2012, so it might be a thing again in not too long.) (Russia may be in a situation now -- especially with the recent drop -- where living conditions for the masses are as bad or worse than in the late Soviet era, but that's orthogonal to the economy being post-industrial, and more about the distributional features of the economy than anything else.)
    - woodandsteel 10y ago
      Here is the wikipedia explanation of the term "post-industrial" "In sociology, the post-industrial society is the stage of society's development when the service sector generates more wealth than the manufacturing sector of the economy" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-industrial_society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-industrial_society That doesn't apply to Russia, so ivan_gammel was using the term in an unconventional manner.

dragonwriter 10y ago

A post-industrial state is one which was dominantly industrial, and has moved on to some other primary basis for its economy, usually because it is engaged in international trade and its comparative advantage is no longer in manufacturing but some other area. Usually, this shift in comparative advantage is reflected in industrial work moving overseas to competitors whose comparative advantage is in that kind of work. So, the two sentences you quote as a supposed contradiction actually support each other, rather than contradicting each other.

PerfectDlite 10y ago
> A post-industrial state is one which was dominantly industrial, and has moved on to some other primary basis for its economy, usually because it is engaged in international trade and its comparative advantage is no longer in manufacturing but some other area. In case of Russia it wasn't so, they still struggle to get back to Soviet level of industrialization after USSR fell apart.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > In case of Russia it wasn't so, they still struggle to get back to Soviet level of industrialization after USSR fell apart. The US keeps struggling to maintain or restore its previous level of industrialization, too, even though its unmistakeably a post-industrial state; there's a lot of emotional attachment to industrialization as a source of economic output that lingers even in post-industrial states, so struggling to restore it is a common response to dissatisfactory economic experiences even in post-industrial states. If Russia were struggling to get back to Soviet-era aggregate or per-capita economic output, that would be a difference -- and there certainly was a time, throughout much of the 1990s, where that was the case. But its not now (though Russia has seen a precipitous output drop since the peak in 2012, so it might be a thing again in not too long.) (Russia may be in a situation now -- especially with the recent drop -- where living conditions for the masses are as bad or worse than in the late Soviet era, but that's orthogonal to the economy being post-industrial, and more about the distributional features of the economy than anything else.)
  - woodandsteel 10y ago
    Here is the wikipedia explanation of the term "post-industrial" "In sociology, the post-industrial society is the stage of society's development when the service sector generates more wealth than the manufacturing sector of the economy" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-industrial_society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-industrial_society That doesn't apply to Russia, so ivan_gammel was using the term in an unconventional manner.