5 ms·

"Genetics" is the new God. Apparently people assign whatever they don't know or understand to genetics. Can't play football? That's genetics!! Knows math? More

"Genetics" is the new God. Apparently people assign whatever they don't know or understand to genetics. Can't play football? That's genetics!! Knows math? More genetics!! Are actually there studies that claim a special ability is due to genetics only?

smnplk 10y ago
It takes genetics to be interested in something too I believe.
- truth_sentinell 10y ago
  I need proof. This is one of the questions I have been interested in for a long time. Do we invent or discover ourselves?
  - nitrogen 10y ago
    You might enjoy reading some of the discussions of free will (or the lack thereof) in the face of a material universe. A good starting point might be searching for "free will" on Jerry Coyne's blog: https://www.google.com/search?q=site:whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com+%22free+will%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=site:whyevolutionistrue.word...
antisthenes 10y ago
Do you really need a study to see that the top athletes in the Olympics, for example, are all there due to genetic advantages? Whether it's higher endurance, a tiny difference in bone structure, longer arms, greater height, etc. - that's all mostly genetics with a bit of environmental factors mixed in (like childhood nutrition) But cognitive abilities and intelligence are far less understood, because you simply can't measure it as well as physical achievements (in fact, some of the top comments here gripe about using a PhD degree as a benchmark for achievement; or patents; or publications; or even income level)
- truth_sentinell 10y ago
  I perfectly understand the physical genetics advantages. But people here and everywhere are attributing intelligence to genetics as it was as evident as physical traits.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    Intelligence is a physical trait; how could it be anything else?
comex 10y ago
> Are actually there studies that claim a special ability is due to genetics only? Not "only", but yes, there are studies attributing variation in intelligence in significant part to genetics. https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence > These studies suggest that genetic factors underlie about 50 percent of the difference in intelligence among individuals.
ralusek 10y ago
I didn't say "only" genetics. I'm just saying that your genes are enormously responsible for what you can excel in. Are you really suggesting that genetics don't play a role in who can successfully play football? If I'm 6'5", is that because I practiced at my height for 10,000 hours? By the way, to act like genetics are "suddenly" king because of some pop-science trend is ridiculous. Genetics have always been king, it's how we evolved from a single celled organism to what we are now.
- truth_sentinell 10y ago
  Physical advantage due to genetics is very different from cognitive advantage due to genetics. First and foremost because we don't even have an absolute way of assessing intelligence, nor we have an appropriate scale (I personally think IQ is BS). That said, where exactly is the genetic factor that determines whether a person is more intelligent than other? Is it more neurons? More connections among them? the ability to process information quicker?
  - mod 10y ago
    The idea that we don't fully understand intelligence does not negate the idea that intelligence would be genetically influenced in a similar manner to observable physical traits. I wholeheartedly disagree with your opening statement, the two are not very different in all likelihood.
    - truth_sentinell 10y ago
      It could be as it couldn't. Both our opinions are on the same level because we're fact-less. In most sports, we have clear rules about who is better at it. Let's say long jump. It's clear that a person with larger limbs (genetics) will have an advantage above one that has shorter limbs. How do we translate this in cognitive ability? A person is more intelligent than other because they passed a test? because they can draw better? Everything is loosely defined.
      - 10y ago
naasking 10y ago
> Are actually there studies that claim a special ability is due to genetics only? Of course there are, like tetrachromacy [1]. Or even more mundane: XY chromosomes prevent men from having the ability to give birth. I also think you're vastly underappreciating the results from genetic studies. Twin studies have repeatedly shown that identical twins separated at birth and growing up in wildly differing conditions, still largely end up with similar temperaments, similar world views, and similar intelligence. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy
- truth_sentinell 10y ago
  Thanks, I didn't know about that. But I meant cognitive abilities, like Math.
  - naasking 10y ago
    Why would cognitive ability be different than any other characteristic, like height, athletic ability, and so on? Those same twin studies have shown that intelligence and academic performance are also highly heritable. Certainly nurturing an ability will enhance performance, but there's an inherent upper limit to everything. Just like eating right and exercising won't make you grow taller than some max threshold, so studying and solving riddles won't make you more intelligent than some upper bound dictated by your genes. We don't know how to measure that yet, for either height or intelligence, but that bound is there.
    - truth_sentinell 10y ago
      I'm astonished about how many people here are using physical traits that are observable (even with the naked eye) as analogies to brain functions. Yes, we know a lot about muscle fibers, nutrition, physics and all that stuff, we can make reasonable conclusions about physical limits, but we don't know much about our brains or minds for that matter, not even state-of-art neurology have come up with solid conclusions, yet people here are talking (and being absolutely sure, which is the worst part) about intelligence inherited by genes, brain limits... I just can't.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Are actually there studies that claim a special ability is due to genetics only? For various special abilities, including intelligence, there are studies that establish the degree to which they are heritable, as well as the effect of particular environmental and other factors in determining the non-inherited portion of the variability.

smnplk 10y ago

It takes genetics to be interested in something too I believe.

truth_sentinell 10y ago
I need proof. This is one of the questions I have been interested in for a long time. Do we invent or discover ourselves?
- nitrogen 10y ago
  You might enjoy reading some of the discussions of free will (or the lack thereof) in the face of a material universe. A good starting point might be searching for "free will" on Jerry Coyne's blog: https://www.google.com/search?q=site:whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com+%22free+will%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=site:whyevolutionistrue.word...

antisthenes 10y ago

Do you really need a study to see that the top athletes in the Olympics, for example, are all there due to genetic advantages? Whether it's higher endurance, a tiny difference in bone structure, longer arms, greater height, etc. - that's all mostly genetics with a bit of environmental factors mixed in (like childhood nutrition) But cognitive abilities and intelligence are far less understood, because you simply can't measure it as well as physical achievements (in fact, some of the top comments here gripe about using a PhD degree as a benchmark for achievement; or patents; or publications; or even income level)

truth_sentinell 10y ago
I perfectly understand the physical genetics advantages. But people here and everywhere are attributing intelligence to genetics as it was as evident as physical traits.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Intelligence is a physical trait; how could it be anything else?

comex 10y ago

> Are actually there studies that claim a special ability is due to genetics only? Not "only", but yes, there are studies attributing variation in intelligence in significant part to genetics. https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence > These studies suggest that genetic factors underlie about 50 percent of the difference in intelligence among individuals.

ralusek 10y ago

I didn't say "only" genetics. I'm just saying that your genes are enormously responsible for what you can excel in. Are you really suggesting that genetics don't play a role in who can successfully play football? If I'm 6'5", is that because I practiced at my height for 10,000 hours? By the way, to act like genetics are "suddenly" king because of some pop-science trend is ridiculous. Genetics have always been king, it's how we evolved from a single celled organism to what we are now.

truth_sentinell 10y ago
Physical advantage due to genetics is very different from cognitive advantage due to genetics. First and foremost because we don't even have an absolute way of assessing intelligence, nor we have an appropriate scale (I personally think IQ is BS). That said, where exactly is the genetic factor that determines whether a person is more intelligent than other? Is it more neurons? More connections among them? the ability to process information quicker?
- mod 10y ago
  The idea that we don't fully understand intelligence does not negate the idea that intelligence would be genetically influenced in a similar manner to observable physical traits. I wholeheartedly disagree with your opening statement, the two are not very different in all likelihood.
  - truth_sentinell 10y ago
    It could be as it couldn't. Both our opinions are on the same level because we're fact-less. In most sports, we have clear rules about who is better at it. Let's say long jump. It's clear that a person with larger limbs (genetics) will have an advantage above one that has shorter limbs. How do we translate this in cognitive ability? A person is more intelligent than other because they passed a test? because they can draw better? Everything is loosely defined.
    - 10y ago

naasking 10y ago

> Are actually there studies that claim a special ability is due to genetics only? Of course there are, like tetrachromacy [1]. Or even more mundane: XY chromosomes prevent men from having the ability to give birth. I also think you're vastly underappreciating the results from genetic studies. Twin studies have repeatedly shown that identical twins separated at birth and growing up in wildly differing conditions, still largely end up with similar temperaments, similar world views, and similar intelligence. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy

truth_sentinell 10y ago
Thanks, I didn't know about that. But I meant cognitive abilities, like Math.
- naasking 10y ago
  Why would cognitive ability be different than any other characteristic, like height, athletic ability, and so on? Those same twin studies have shown that intelligence and academic performance are also highly heritable. Certainly nurturing an ability will enhance performance, but there's an inherent upper limit to everything. Just like eating right and exercising won't make you grow taller than some max threshold, so studying and solving riddles won't make you more intelligent than some upper bound dictated by your genes. We don't know how to measure that yet, for either height or intelligence, but that bound is there.
  - truth_sentinell 10y ago
    I'm astonished about how many people here are using physical traits that are observable (even with the naked eye) as analogies to brain functions. Yes, we know a lot about muscle fibers, nutrition, physics and all that stuff, we can make reasonable conclusions about physical limits, but we don't know much about our brains or minds for that matter, not even state-of-art neurology have come up with solid conclusions, yet people here are talking (and being absolutely sure, which is the worst part) about intelligence inherited by genes, brain limits... I just can't.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> Are actually there studies that claim a special ability is due to genetics only? For various special abilities, including intelligence, there are studies that establish the degree to which they are heritable, as well as the effect of particular environmental and other factors in determining the non-inherited portion of the variability.