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Consider this: Their gift is the ability to work hard. They are able to work hard because they find it fun. Q: We have all felt the "fun" of learning math (f

Consider this: Their gift is the ability to work hard. They are able to work hard because they find it fun. Q: We have all felt the "fun" of learning math (for instance), so how do we share that with others?

saint_fiasco 10y ago
Maybe it's impossible. Just like you can't force a gay man to be more interested in women and you can't force an asocial nerd to enjoy loud parties, you just can't force most people to enjoy math. EDIT: changed an example to be more specific and precise.
- iopq 10y ago
  I'm an introverted nerd and I enjoy socialization. This is a bad example.
  - saint_fiasco 10y ago
    What's the correct word for someone who doesn't enjoy socialization? What does introverted mean? Does it just mean "person who enjoys being alone" or "person who is not good at socializing, even though they may enjoy it"?
    - iopq 10y ago
      Introverted means you feel tired after socializing, while extroverted people feel excited and energized. Both need to socialize, but the introvert needs to recharge alone. Only very weird people are asocial. This trait was very heavily selected against in tribal societies because surviving on your own is much less likely.
      - saint_fiasco 10y ago
        I feel tired after studying calculus but I can still do it if I try really hard. When I study discrete math or lineal algebra I don't feel as tired and can study for longer. Naturally, I'm much better at discrete math than I am at calculus. I expect extroverted people are better at socializing than introverted people for similar reasons. Are there many introverted politicians?
- inputcoffee 10y ago
  Math was a random example, but it is hard for me to imagine that a people aren't born with an innate interest in some intellectual pursuit. You see it in people who talk about Baseball statistics, or Dungeons and Dragons rules. You just have to let them see that the same pleasure center can get lit up by Linear Algebra. (That might be a bad example. I still wish someone could explain the intuition behind matrix multiplication.)
- sporkenfang 10y ago
  There are a lot of people for whom "math" means just the algorithmic computation drudgery they teach you to vomit out on exams by pouring it down a funnel into you in an ordinary American high school or UK A-levels math course. Doing a similar (or even the same) calculation a bunch of times to get the same result is, in short, boring, no matter how you dress it up. If prior to college everyone learned how to visualize math and some of the cool things you can do with, say, something as fundamental yet "advanced" as the FFT (the "why" to go along with the mechanics of the thing) I think the story would be different.
  - saint_fiasco 10y ago
    And I'm sure some homosexual men just haven't found the right woman yet. But clearly most homosexual men just don't like women no matter how attractive they are. Is it so hard to believe that some people see math in a similar way?
    - sporkenfang 10y ago
      Yes. It is incredibly hard to believe, considering sexual orientation isn't a matter of like (as in liking math, or strawberries, or the color blue) but as far as I know is innate. Preference outside of sexuality is attained through experimentation and learning. A lot of people are deeply suspicious to the point of hatred of cultures and ways of thought they don't understand well or have a misunderstanding of. I believe dislike of mathematics falls into the misunderstanding category. Being a gay man versus a straight man isn't a misunderstanding, it's part of who a person is. Obviously it took some self discovery for an individual to determine their sexual identity, but whether you like or dislike math isn't on the same level. Some people are more spatially inclined and have an easier time grasping higher math (I am not included in this group) but some people have to work their ass off for every shred of mathematical understanding (I am in this group). Some people don't understand why this work would or could be worth it. Some people never even get to the point where they have to do anything other than 'plug and chug' to get the right answer for the worksheet, and so see nothing valid or useful in the stuff we teach in most math classes before upper division college level.

saint_fiasco 10y ago

Maybe it's impossible. Just like you can't force a gay man to be more interested in women and you can't force an asocial nerd to enjoy loud parties, you just can't force most people to enjoy math. EDIT: changed an example to be more specific and precise.

iopq 10y ago
I'm an introverted nerd and I enjoy socialization. This is a bad example.
- saint_fiasco 10y ago
  What's the correct word for someone who doesn't enjoy socialization? What does introverted mean? Does it just mean "person who enjoys being alone" or "person who is not good at socializing, even though they may enjoy it"?
  - iopq 10y ago
    Introverted means you feel tired after socializing, while extroverted people feel excited and energized. Both need to socialize, but the introvert needs to recharge alone. Only very weird people are asocial. This trait was very heavily selected against in tribal societies because surviving on your own is much less likely.
    - saint_fiasco 10y ago
      I feel tired after studying calculus but I can still do it if I try really hard. When I study discrete math or lineal algebra I don't feel as tired and can study for longer. Naturally, I'm much better at discrete math than I am at calculus. I expect extroverted people are better at socializing than introverted people for similar reasons. Are there many introverted politicians?
inputcoffee 10y ago
Math was a random example, but it is hard for me to imagine that a people aren't born with an innate interest in some intellectual pursuit. You see it in people who talk about Baseball statistics, or Dungeons and Dragons rules. You just have to let them see that the same pleasure center can get lit up by Linear Algebra. (That might be a bad example. I still wish someone could explain the intuition behind matrix multiplication.)
sporkenfang 10y ago
There are a lot of people for whom "math" means just the algorithmic computation drudgery they teach you to vomit out on exams by pouring it down a funnel into you in an ordinary American high school or UK A-levels math course. Doing a similar (or even the same) calculation a bunch of times to get the same result is, in short, boring, no matter how you dress it up. If prior to college everyone learned how to visualize math and some of the cool things you can do with, say, something as fundamental yet "advanced" as the FFT (the "why" to go along with the mechanics of the thing) I think the story would be different.
- saint_fiasco 10y ago
  And I'm sure some homosexual men just haven't found the right woman yet. But clearly most homosexual men just don't like women no matter how attractive they are. Is it so hard to believe that some people see math in a similar way?
  - sporkenfang 10y ago
    Yes. It is incredibly hard to believe, considering sexual orientation isn't a matter of like (as in liking math, or strawberries, or the color blue) but as far as I know is innate. Preference outside of sexuality is attained through experimentation and learning. A lot of people are deeply suspicious to the point of hatred of cultures and ways of thought they don't understand well or have a misunderstanding of. I believe dislike of mathematics falls into the misunderstanding category. Being a gay man versus a straight man isn't a misunderstanding, it's part of who a person is. Obviously it took some self discovery for an individual to determine their sexual identity, but whether you like or dislike math isn't on the same level. Some people are more spatially inclined and have an easier time grasping higher math (I am not included in this group) but some people have to work their ass off for every shred of mathematical understanding (I am in this group). Some people don't understand why this work would or could be worth it. Some people never even get to the point where they have to do anything other than 'plug and chug' to get the right answer for the worksheet, and so see nothing valid or useful in the stuff we teach in most math classes before upper division college level.