4 ms·

>If the future of work is bliss, we still need to know when to put it down and pick up something else, whether it’s family game night, hockey league, or just be

>If the future of work is bliss, we still need to know when to put it down and pick up something else, whether it’s family game night, hockey league, or just being with nature—happiness simply for the sake of it. I will do this once I can stop worrying about earning enough to afford a house, kids, and family health insurance while also saving enough to theoretically have a meager retirement. The writer, Stephanie Buck, sounds like a pretty out of touch California kid with rich parents. Her other writing and Instragram reinforce this. Self-shaming about staying in on News Years at the decrepit age of 28 with her husband, oh the horror and embarrassment. Now look at my thousands of photos of exotic expensive vacations while I write about the American working class trying too hard.

edgyswingset 10y ago
> The writer, Stephanie Buck, sounds like a pretty out of touch California kid with rich parents. I don't know about you, but I just see photos of the California outdoors, Seattle, and Vancouver on said Instagram profile. Everything looks easily affordable for someone making ~30k/year or more.
- whamlastxmas 10y ago
  Ok, maybe not filled with "exotic", but at a cursory glance (all within the past year or so): Living in Manhattan while working as a writer (in Manhattan) Thailand Massachusetts New Orleans Austin and surrounding area All over CA All over NY Lake Tahoe Seattle Vancouver Miami TED2015 (tickets are thousands of dollars if I remember right) Attended several exclusive fashion shows in NYC Yeah let's see someone doing this all in the same year while making 30k in a regular 9-5 job. They'd be hard pressed to do ONE of them.
  - edgyswingset 10y ago
    It feels too damn weird investigating a person and drawing conclusions. Have you considered that perhaps her boyfriend or husband also contributes to these trips? Or that her employer sent her to things like fashion shows and TED conferences (after all, she was an editor at an online publication and is now a senior writer for another, indicating a level of competence "worthy" of that sort of stuff)? Or that perhaps she lives in a tiny apartment, with perhaps even roommates? Or, like most people, she posts pictures that are nothing but the highlights of her life? There are a huge number of possibilities that you're ignoring because it fits your own narrative.
    - whamlastxmas 10y ago
      Who pays or the reasons why she travels so much isn't really relevant, is it? She gets to do it. She travels more in two weeks than most people do in a year. Whether it's her cushy job, her rich husband, rich parents - she gets to experience all of this. And of course they're highlights, but the point is that she has so many in such a short time span while keeping a job. My point is that she's detached from the reality as 95%+ of Americans have it, and judging by her $100k undergraduate liberal arts degree and growing up in SF, maybe she's never been attached to that reality.
      - mmflint 10y ago
        I find people come to the defense (although you aren't attacking her - just noting how her privilege lends to her lack of self-awareness) of people of higher means in order to feel less guilt about their own privileges/upbringing/good fortune. I assume this is some coping mechanism because people feel attacked when you point out their opinion may be influenced by their affluence and perhaps not all their success is their own.
    - BlackjackCF 10y ago
      Agreed with this. It's possible she lives really cheaply in order to be able to afford to travel.
      - Grishnakh 10y ago
        It's not possible to live cheaply in Manhattan.
    - Grishnakh 10y ago
      She probably does live in a tiny apartment, but in Manhattan where she apparently lives, those can easily cost $3000 per month or more. And the previous poster noted that all of those "highlights" were within 1 year. I don't know anyone among my middle-class peers who gets around that much within a year.
  - snowwrestler 10y ago
    When a person works as a writer they might be sent to many places and events to write about them. While that might sounds luxurious, the reality is often otherwise. A couple Instagrams from a given location don't mean she was on a 2-week vacation. When I was working as a poor tech consultant's assistant, I traveled to Vegas several times, New York city several times, Boston, and a few other places. I got a few nice pictures along the way but 90+% of my time was spent either in windowless conference rooms or in my cheap hotel, writing. I find it distasteful to try to write the story of a person's life from a few social media posts. Do you post photos illustrating your life hardships to Instagram? Does anyone? I know professional musicians who travel the world playing concerts, but have no retirement savings and share cheap houses when they're at home. Guess which side of their life you'll see on social media. If you want to talk about why you disagree with the ideas in the article, let's do that. This social stalking you're doing is borderline witch hunting IMO.
    - whamlastxmas 10y ago
      I only list it because someone else brought it up. I'm not witch hunting, just providing evidence for my original theory that someone questioned. Yes, obviously, it's impossible to paint the entire picture. Maybe she was in Miami for work and the pictures of her sun bathing on the beach was only a small part of that trip. Maybe going to bars in New Orleans was just for an article, and skiing in Lake Tahoe for Mashable's twitter page, and riding an Elephant in Thailand was research for an investigative article she's doing about animal cruelty. She's such a hard worker, it must be so difficult to do all this for work. She's living the struggle. I should give her more credit.
jmagoon 10y ago
So instead of engaging or debating with the ideas presented in the piece, you immediately dig into the author's personal life as a way of disagreeing with it? The article is specifically about the middle class having two careers, with an explicit description of this being a "middle class phenomenon". Perhaps that's just the era we live in--where ideas no longer are relevant without the context of the person delivering the idea--where human beings are unable to research or insert themselves into mental constructs due to their lack of 'perspective', that is, their lack of having a specific and acceptable background and history. Interesting that this is the exact frustration so many people express about political correctness, where arguments, ideas, and contributions are invalidated purely based on background, decisions, or other environmental factors.
- whamlastxmas 10y ago
  >So instead of engaging or debating with the ideas presented The only real idea presented is that middle class people don't really have hobbies like they used to, and that maybe they should. I engaged that by saying it's unrealistic to make this blanket statement when people are struggling so much just to provide security and comfort for their families. I am saying the principle of her article is poor completely independent of who she is as a person. I also mention that she lacks the perspective to genuinely make this argument because it's frankly pretty ignorant sounding. >where ideas no longer are relevant without the context of the person delivering the idea If dumb ideas are presented, it's worth analyzing why they were presented to begin with. Considering the person behind a piece of writing or speech is tremendously important. It's why we have inane quotes from famous people on posters. People care about context and always have.
- atria 10y ago
  Do they no longer teach critical analysis in literature classes anymore? I remember rolling my eyes, and being forced to learn about author's lives, as the author's live experiences may impact their view point. I would think this is even more important with authors that are trying to impact public opinion or policy.
- maxsilver 10y ago
  >So instead of engaging or debating with the ideas presented in the piece, you immediately dig into the author's personal life as a way of disagreeing with it? Parent commenter did exactly what you requested, before digging into the author. Noting that people don't have the wealth this article presumes, is a valid debate against the piece. --- The article mentions that hobbies arise out of disposable income and free time gained from economic prosperity, and then was lost when the economy faltered. But the article then claims "The American economy has fared better in recent years" -- I'm not convinced that's an accurate picture. Americans (as people) are not necessarily better off if America (the economy) does better. Today, most Americans (people) are still struggling financially, now often more than before, despite the fact that "the economy" has "recovered". But you can't see that from a desk in Manhattan, it's not visible if your only looking at census statistics or property values. Which has created a weird disconnect where people who can sustainable (but only barely) afford housing / food / medical are routinely described as "middle class", even though they have far less disposable income and/or leisure time than their counterparts from the 1970's, or 1990's. The recent explosion in ultra-high costs of housing, medical, and education likely play a role in this, absorbing money that previously would have become "leisure" spending. And the cash necessary to cover those costs seems to come by additional working through what used to be people's leisure time.

edgyswingset 10y ago

> The writer, Stephanie Buck, sounds like a pretty out of touch California kid with rich parents. I don't know about you, but I just see photos of the California outdoors, Seattle, and Vancouver on said Instagram profile. Everything looks easily affordable for someone making ~30k/year or more.

whamlastxmas 10y ago
Ok, maybe not filled with "exotic", but at a cursory glance (all within the past year or so): Living in Manhattan while working as a writer (in Manhattan) Thailand Massachusetts New Orleans Austin and surrounding area All over CA All over NY Lake Tahoe Seattle Vancouver Miami TED2015 (tickets are thousands of dollars if I remember right) Attended several exclusive fashion shows in NYC Yeah let's see someone doing this all in the same year while making 30k in a regular 9-5 job. They'd be hard pressed to do ONE of them.
- edgyswingset 10y ago
  It feels too damn weird investigating a person and drawing conclusions. Have you considered that perhaps her boyfriend or husband also contributes to these trips? Or that her employer sent her to things like fashion shows and TED conferences (after all, she was an editor at an online publication and is now a senior writer for another, indicating a level of competence "worthy" of that sort of stuff)? Or that perhaps she lives in a tiny apartment, with perhaps even roommates? Or, like most people, she posts pictures that are nothing but the highlights of her life? There are a huge number of possibilities that you're ignoring because it fits your own narrative.
  - whamlastxmas 10y ago
    Who pays or the reasons why she travels so much isn't really relevant, is it? She gets to do it. She travels more in two weeks than most people do in a year. Whether it's her cushy job, her rich husband, rich parents - she gets to experience all of this. And of course they're highlights, but the point is that she has so many in such a short time span while keeping a job. My point is that she's detached from the reality as 95%+ of Americans have it, and judging by her $100k undergraduate liberal arts degree and growing up in SF, maybe she's never been attached to that reality.
    - mmflint 10y ago
      I find people come to the defense (although you aren't attacking her - just noting how her privilege lends to her lack of self-awareness) of people of higher means in order to feel less guilt about their own privileges/upbringing/good fortune. I assume this is some coping mechanism because people feel attacked when you point out their opinion may be influenced by their affluence and perhaps not all their success is their own.
  - BlackjackCF 10y ago
    Agreed with this. It's possible she lives really cheaply in order to be able to afford to travel.
    - Grishnakh 10y ago
      It's not possible to live cheaply in Manhattan.
  - Grishnakh 10y ago
    She probably does live in a tiny apartment, but in Manhattan where she apparently lives, those can easily cost $3000 per month or more. And the previous poster noted that all of those "highlights" were within 1 year. I don't know anyone among my middle-class peers who gets around that much within a year.
- snowwrestler 10y ago
  When a person works as a writer they might be sent to many places and events to write about them. While that might sounds luxurious, the reality is often otherwise. A couple Instagrams from a given location don't mean she was on a 2-week vacation. When I was working as a poor tech consultant's assistant, I traveled to Vegas several times, New York city several times, Boston, and a few other places. I got a few nice pictures along the way but 90+% of my time was spent either in windowless conference rooms or in my cheap hotel, writing. I find it distasteful to try to write the story of a person's life from a few social media posts. Do you post photos illustrating your life hardships to Instagram? Does anyone? I know professional musicians who travel the world playing concerts, but have no retirement savings and share cheap houses when they're at home. Guess which side of their life you'll see on social media. If you want to talk about why you disagree with the ideas in the article, let's do that. This social stalking you're doing is borderline witch hunting IMO.
  - whamlastxmas 10y ago
    I only list it because someone else brought it up. I'm not witch hunting, just providing evidence for my original theory that someone questioned. Yes, obviously, it's impossible to paint the entire picture. Maybe she was in Miami for work and the pictures of her sun bathing on the beach was only a small part of that trip. Maybe going to bars in New Orleans was just for an article, and skiing in Lake Tahoe for Mashable's twitter page, and riding an Elephant in Thailand was research for an investigative article she's doing about animal cruelty. She's such a hard worker, it must be so difficult to do all this for work. She's living the struggle. I should give her more credit.

jmagoon 10y ago

So instead of engaging or debating with the ideas presented in the piece, you immediately dig into the author's personal life as a way of disagreeing with it? The article is specifically about the middle class having two careers, with an explicit description of this being a "middle class phenomenon". Perhaps that's just the era we live in--where ideas no longer are relevant without the context of the person delivering the idea--where human beings are unable to research or insert themselves into mental constructs due to their lack of 'perspective', that is, their lack of having a specific and acceptable background and history. Interesting that this is the exact frustration so many people express about political correctness, where arguments, ideas, and contributions are invalidated purely based on background, decisions, or other environmental factors.

whamlastxmas 10y ago
>So instead of engaging or debating with the ideas presented The only real idea presented is that middle class people don't really have hobbies like they used to, and that maybe they should. I engaged that by saying it's unrealistic to make this blanket statement when people are struggling so much just to provide security and comfort for their families. I am saying the principle of her article is poor completely independent of who she is as a person. I also mention that she lacks the perspective to genuinely make this argument because it's frankly pretty ignorant sounding. >where ideas no longer are relevant without the context of the person delivering the idea If dumb ideas are presented, it's worth analyzing why they were presented to begin with. Considering the person behind a piece of writing or speech is tremendously important. It's why we have inane quotes from famous people on posters. People care about context and always have.
atria 10y ago
Do they no longer teach critical analysis in literature classes anymore? I remember rolling my eyes, and being forced to learn about author's lives, as the author's live experiences may impact their view point. I would think this is even more important with authors that are trying to impact public opinion or policy.
maxsilver 10y ago
>So instead of engaging or debating with the ideas presented in the piece, you immediately dig into the author's personal life as a way of disagreeing with it? Parent commenter did exactly what you requested, before digging into the author. Noting that people don't have the wealth this article presumes, is a valid debate against the piece. --- The article mentions that hobbies arise out of disposable income and free time gained from economic prosperity, and then was lost when the economy faltered. But the article then claims "The American economy has fared better in recent years" -- I'm not convinced that's an accurate picture. Americans (as people) are not necessarily better off if America (the economy) does better. Today, most Americans (people) are still struggling financially, now often more than before, despite the fact that "the economy" has "recovered". But you can't see that from a desk in Manhattan, it's not visible if your only looking at census statistics or property values. Which has created a weird disconnect where people who can sustainable (but only barely) afford housing / food / medical are routinely described as "middle class", even though they have far less disposable income and/or leisure time than their counterparts from the 1970's, or 1990's. The recent explosion in ultra-high costs of housing, medical, and education likely play a role in this, absorbing money that previously would have become "leisure" spending. And the cash necessary to cover those costs seems to come by additional working through what used to be people's leisure time.