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I watched the video multiple times. At 3:38 of the 17:47 video, you can clearly see an AK-47 in one of the mens hands. At 3:48 you can see another AK-47. Als

by jcnnghm 17y ago

I watched the video multiple times. At 3:38 of the 17:47 video, you can clearly see an AK-47 in one of the mens hands. At 3:48 you can see another AK-47. Also at 3:48, it looks like a third man has either a handgun or a small submachine gun. At 4:12, it definitely looks like there's an RPG. Even more so at 4:19. The helicopter was called in by ground troops who were taking small arms fire from a small group of men in this area. I don't think it would be possible to be called in to look for a group of armed men setting up an ambush with small arms in this area, and not come to the conclusion that these are the guys. They are armed.

stse 17y ago
I think 3:38 looks more like a camera strap. An AK is quite heavy and not something you wave around like that. The quality is quite bad so it might be a weapon, but I don't think you can "clearly see an AK-47". I would be very very surprised if the device at 4:12 is an RPG. It looks and behaves like a long lens camera. At 4:15 you can see a space between the device and the body of the person. An RPG is also quite heavy and has a distinct shape and you wouldn't generally turn it around a corner. As there also according to wikileaks were photographers on the scene. It's just far more likely that it's one of the front two guys who carries something that picks up his camera and take some pictures. If that is the case, then I would have to question the chopper crews ability to recognize weapons on the ground.
- jcnnghm 17y ago
  The standard AK-47 weighs 9.3 pounds. It's not exactly heavy. There is also a lighter version weighing in at 6.8lbs. The way shown in the video is a plausible, common way to carry that type of weapon. There were AK-47's found at the scene. Those are AK-47s. You think it looks like a camera now. Keep in mind that the helicopter was called in to look for a group of men that were firing at troops on the ground that are down the street from where the "camera" is pointing at 4:15. Again, an RPG isn't quite heavy. The standard RPG-7 weighs 15 pounds.
  - stse 17y ago
    It's at least more likely that the two guys at 3:50, is carrying an RPG and an AK, then any of the other guys I see in the video. Their behavioral pattern doesn't really match the rest of the groups. At 4:46 you can see something that resembles a magazine sticking out from the striped guy. And the weight of the lift at 3:57 more matches my experience. To me the chopper crew is just sloppy and they shouldn't be. I get why some grunt storming buildings may accidentally shoot someone holding up a broom or something. But these guys should have the discipline and training to be able to stay cool and wait things out. There's clearly not a full blown street fight going on at this location. And what happens at 5:13? But frankly I'll always be on the side of war corespondents after reading "My war gone by, I miss it so" and seeing "War Photographer".
lolcraft 17y ago
At 3:38 of the 17:47 video, you can clearly see an AK-47 in one of the mens hands. So, no one in Baghdad uses bodyguards? All Iraqi policemen must be at all the time in uniform, even for covert entry? I don't think an AK is any convincing ground for believing them to be insurgents. Americans aren't the only ones with rights to carry guns, specially in the most dangerous city on Earth. At 4:12, it definitely looks like there's an RPG. Even more so at 4:19. It's a pity you couldn't be bothered to watch thirty seconds more of the video. At 4:49, when the helicopter goes around the house, we see the full group, one second or so before the fire starts. No one is holding an RPG. What you say that looks like one is actually a glimpse of some sort of tube. I guess construction workers must have a hard time on Baghdad, if that's grounds for use of deadly force. The helicopter was called in by ground troops who were taking small arms fire from a small group of men in this area. They seem very relaxed, for insurgents in the middle of a fire fight. They are walking, move in a close group, are calm and walk exposed in the middle of the street. Not exactly standard military procedure.
- jcnnghm 17y ago
  So, no one in Baghdad uses bodyguards? All Iraqi policemen must be at all the time in uniform, even for covert entry? I don't think an AK is any convincing ground for believing them to be insurgents. Americans aren't the only ones with rights to carry guns, specially in the most dangerous city on Earth. It's unwise to approach an active combat zone with weapons. It's a pity you couldn't be bothered to watch thirty seconds more of the video. At 4:49, when the helicopter goes around the house, we see the full group, one second or so before the fire starts. No one is holding an RPG. I see a crowd of people at that point. It's difficult to tell what the people in the back are doing. Presumably, there could still be someone peaking around the corner at the Humvee down the road. Further, I already saw several guns, and so did the apache crew. The decision to fire had already been made. They seem very relaxed, for insurgents in the middle of a fire fight. They are walking, move in a close group, are calm and walk exposed in the middle of the street. Not exactly standard military procedure. This isn't Mission Impossible. When the bullets aren't flying and there is no enemy in sight, there isn't a reason to expect people to move like there are.

by jcnnghm 17y ago

stse 17y ago

I think 3:38 looks more like a camera strap. An AK is quite heavy and not something you wave around like that. The quality is quite bad so it might be a weapon, but I don't think you can "clearly see an AK-47". I would be very very surprised if the device at 4:12 is an RPG. It looks and behaves like a long lens camera. At 4:15 you can see a space between the device and the body of the person. An RPG is also quite heavy and has a distinct shape and you wouldn't generally turn it around a corner. As there also according to wikileaks were photographers on the scene. It's just far more likely that it's one of the front two guys who carries something that picks up his camera and take some pictures. If that is the case, then I would have to question the chopper crews ability to recognize weapons on the ground.

jcnnghm 17y ago
The standard AK-47 weighs 9.3 pounds. It's not exactly heavy. There is also a lighter version weighing in at 6.8lbs. The way shown in the video is a plausible, common way to carry that type of weapon. There were AK-47's found at the scene. Those are AK-47s. You think it looks like a camera now. Keep in mind that the helicopter was called in to look for a group of men that were firing at troops on the ground that are down the street from where the "camera" is pointing at 4:15. Again, an RPG isn't quite heavy. The standard RPG-7 weighs 15 pounds.
- stse 17y ago
  It's at least more likely that the two guys at 3:50, is carrying an RPG and an AK, then any of the other guys I see in the video. Their behavioral pattern doesn't really match the rest of the groups. At 4:46 you can see something that resembles a magazine sticking out from the striped guy. And the weight of the lift at 3:57 more matches my experience. To me the chopper crew is just sloppy and they shouldn't be. I get why some grunt storming buildings may accidentally shoot someone holding up a broom or something. But these guys should have the discipline and training to be able to stay cool and wait things out. There's clearly not a full blown street fight going on at this location. And what happens at 5:13? But frankly I'll always be on the side of war corespondents after reading "My war gone by, I miss it so" and seeing "War Photographer".

lolcraft 17y ago

At 3:38 of the 17:47 video, you can clearly see an AK-47 in one of the mens hands. So, no one in Baghdad uses bodyguards? All Iraqi policemen must be at all the time in uniform, even for covert entry? I don't think an AK is any convincing ground for believing them to be insurgents. Americans aren't the only ones with rights to carry guns, specially in the most dangerous city on Earth. At 4:12, it definitely looks like there's an RPG. Even more so at 4:19. It's a pity you couldn't be bothered to watch thirty seconds more of the video. At 4:49, when the helicopter goes around the house, we see the full group, one second or so before the fire starts. No one is holding an RPG. What you say that looks like one is actually a glimpse of some sort of tube. I guess construction workers must have a hard time on Baghdad, if that's grounds for use of deadly force. The helicopter was called in by ground troops who were taking small arms fire from a small group of men in this area. They seem very relaxed, for insurgents in the middle of a fire fight. They are walking, move in a close group, are calm and walk exposed in the middle of the street. Not exactly standard military procedure.

jcnnghm 17y ago
So, no one in Baghdad uses bodyguards? All Iraqi policemen must be at all the time in uniform, even for covert entry? I don't think an AK is any convincing ground for believing them to be insurgents. Americans aren't the only ones with rights to carry guns, specially in the most dangerous city on Earth. It's unwise to approach an active combat zone with weapons. It's a pity you couldn't be bothered to watch thirty seconds more of the video. At 4:49, when the helicopter goes around the house, we see the full group, one second or so before the fire starts. No one is holding an RPG. I see a crowd of people at that point. It's difficult to tell what the people in the back are doing. Presumably, there could still be someone peaking around the corner at the Humvee down the road. Further, I already saw several guns, and so did the apache crew. The decision to fire had already been made. They seem very relaxed, for insurgents in the middle of a fire fight. They are walking, move in a close group, are calm and walk exposed in the middle of the street. Not exactly standard military procedure. This isn't Mission Impossible. When the bullets aren't flying and there is no enemy in sight, there isn't a reason to expect people to move like there are.