4 ms·

I thought so too, until I saw things like these about one of the "nicer" occupations. They broke the resistance with brutality -- then the population suffered s

by berntb 10y ago

I thought so too, until I saw things like these about one of the "nicer" occupations. They broke the resistance with brutality -- then the population suffered silently until it was clear no Soviet tanks would roll in if they threw the yoke off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946%E2%80%9347 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946%E2%80%93... A few percent of the population was in prison for political errors (like not writing over your farm to the party): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reeducation_in_Communist_Romania#Pite.C8.99ti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reeducation_in_Communist_Roman... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor_of_Hungarians_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor_of_Hungarians_in_... Sending most grown ups from Transylvania with German ancestry (they generally moved there during the middle ages) to Siberia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Soviet_Union#Deportations_of_Germans_from_the_occupied_territories_in_1944.E2.80.931945 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Sovi...

gbog 10y ago
It is hard to draw the line, because you need first to build the concept of a "people" (or nation?) then try to find out what's the collective will. But you can't either dismiss this, as people right of self-determination is a core principle. If a nation somewhere collectively decide they do not want, say, modern medicine, or access to Internet, I will think it is stupid but cannot come there and tell them that I know better.
- berntb 10y ago
  How many percent of the population forced out and/or sent to prison camps do you think is a serious limit? Lithuania was at ~ 15% after WWII. Or does it have to be mass murders of a large fraction of the population? (And yes, 'grive' do have a point -- at the time, there were other problems. It was just not an alternative to continue WWII. After that, a new war would be nuclear. No way to win those.)
  - gbog 10y ago
    It's not a matter of percent. If a very corrupted country decided to get rid of all mafia at once, it could mean a high percentage of the countrymen tried. However getting rid of an ethnic minority, or of the homosexuals, is not ok. The limit is very hard to draw precisely。
    - berntb 10y ago
      Uh, in which country have the organized criminality ever been over 1%? 3%? :D Regarding Lithuania we talk about getting rid of 15% not of the "ethnic minority" but of the "ethnic majority", then replacing them with a more "dependable" population.

by berntb 10y ago

gbog 10y ago

It is hard to draw the line, because you need first to build the concept of a "people" (or nation?) then try to find out what's the collective will. But you can't either dismiss this, as people right of self-determination is a core principle. If a nation somewhere collectively decide they do not want, say, modern medicine, or access to Internet, I will think it is stupid but cannot come there and tell them that I know better.

berntb 10y ago
How many percent of the population forced out and/or sent to prison camps do you think is a serious limit? Lithuania was at ~ 15% after WWII. Or does it have to be mass murders of a large fraction of the population? (And yes, 'grive' do have a point -- at the time, there were other problems. It was just not an alternative to continue WWII. After that, a new war would be nuclear. No way to win those.)
- gbog 10y ago
  It's not a matter of percent. If a very corrupted country decided to get rid of all mafia at once, it could mean a high percentage of the countrymen tried. However getting rid of an ethnic minority, or of the homosexuals, is not ok. The limit is very hard to draw precisely。
  - berntb 10y ago
    Uh, in which country have the organized criminality ever been over 1%? 3%? :D Regarding Lithuania we talk about getting rid of 15% not of the "ethnic minority" but of the "ethnic majority", then replacing them with a more "dependable" population.