12 ms·

Gordon Murray-designed ‘OX’ flat-pack truck

308 points by kaishiro 10y ago

Nux 10y ago
It looks like you'd need a cat C license to drive this (in UK), alas. Still, the DIY-er in me loves the idea, hope they do well and get even cheaper.
tarikjn 10y ago
When Gordon Murray designs a truck, it's worth paying attention. The McLaren F1 road car pioneered a lot of new and creative technology that is still trickling down in consumer cars today, while remaining an excellently built car loved by enthusiasts and that has appreciated in value several folds. It almost defined the brand of form following function in super cars. McLaren are also known for building a lot of their own parts and tools down to the nuts versus using suppliers. Given Gordon Murray's attention to details, there is probably a lot more interesting things about this truck than the article can mention.
- cromulent 10y ago
  I haven't heard much about his iStream technology recently. I wonder if anyone but Yamaha has taken it up. http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a6665/gordon-murray-i-stream-website/ http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a6665/gordon-mu... Murray "... even claimed that the process is so simplified that Walmart or Apple could use it to start manufacturing cars."
  - jonah 10y ago
    the BMW i3 is probably the closest production vehicle. It's pretty revolutionary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8
    - fwr 10y ago
      Is there a text version or an article about this?
      - jonah 10y ago
        The full report is available for $500k! DDG says: http://www.hybridcars.com/teardown-reveals-bmw-i3-is-most-advanced-vehicle-on-the-planet/ http://www.hybridcars.com/teardown-reveals-bmw-i3-is-most-ad... http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/01/05/reverse-engineering-bmw-i3/ http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/01/05/reverse-engineering-bmw-i3... http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2015/01/04/video-unlocking-the-secrets-of-bmws-remarkable-car-of-the-future/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2015/01/04/video-unl... But for more you'll just have to do some searching.
    - patrickk 10y ago
      This is extraordinary. Thanks for sharing. It's amazing that BMW aren't shouting about this from the rooftops. They mention something about social media on the page for the i3 (at least on my local site) but nothing about the manufacturing process used for the body and the other innovations.
  - cbartlett 10y ago
    I believe it's used in the new TVR project.
  - exDM69 10y ago
    Gordon Murray comments in the article that iStream was an inspiration and lessons learned from that project were applied to the OX. And the concept is taken much further too, the idea of iStream was to replace hard-to-manufacture precision moulded and welded panels used in consturcting the chassis with much simpler tubular construction (while using modern designs to get the rigidity and durability). The entire OX chassis is built with flat panels (from "engineered plywood", I think that's a wood + aluminium composite) and straight tubes, making it really simple to manufacture and assemble but rigid and strong. This is also where the race car designer background comes into play. Back when he got started, it was all tubular frame construction for the lower end and riveted aluminium monocoques for the top end. Of course his best known works are from the early carbon fiber composite era (mid 1980s) but his background in chassis rigidity must really help.
- wycx 10y ago
  Gordon Murray is also responsible for the BT-46B fancar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46#Brabham_BT46B.C2.A0.E2.80.93_the_.22fan_car.22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46#Brabham_BT46B.C2....
forkandwait 10y ago
I want one! Where do I order? Anybody know about the emissions and if you can drive it in the US (non-California)? I also wonder if the parts are easy and standard enough to make in more widely distributed factories. Seems the revolution waiting to happen is when a small country can make at least some of the parts in a small factory and trade with other similar partners to commodify the ecosystem, like PCs in the 1990s etc.
- seltzered_ 10y ago
  http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/ http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/ - is the official site and shows an image of the flatpack. I'm going to take a guess that this wouldn't meet US safety standards, it's design intent really seems for serving the developing world.
- Animats 10y ago
  The Ford Transit is available with an engine that meets California standards, so it could be made emissions-compliant. Crashworthyness, though... There's not much crush depth in that thing. The driver is up front. Did they install ABS?
- jonah 10y ago
  As a " kit car" I suspect you can legally register and drive it. They're not held to the same standards as a production vehicle.
  - ChuckMcM 10y ago
    Exactly one, but yes you can register it.
- CPAhem 10y ago
  Looks like a great idea. Unfortunately, in most of the developed world, it does not look like it would not pass the occupant safety regulations.
  - allengeorge 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
bikamonki 10y ago
How exactly is £10-15000 cheap in developing countries?
- kbart 10y ago
  Yeah, that was my first mind too. Nobody, bar few magnates, in developing world buys new cars. You can get a used truck for few thousand or less bucks there. Nice idea, but I really doubt we will see many of these trucks used for its intended purpose.
  - hexane360 10y ago
    And how much do you think a used Ox will go for? Not to mention the increased storage and versatility.
    - paganel 10y ago
      Not the OP, and I do not live in Africa, but in Eastern Europe, where paying 10-15,000 euros/pounds/$ for a car is also seen as expensive by a lot of people (I couldn't afford it, that's for sure). Looking on the roads around me the VW T3 is really popular around here for people who want to get things done, you can find decent enough examples at around 800-1000 euros (I know because I also looked at purchasing one). The repairs are easy to do, lots of spare parts available, and if you think diesel is too expensive you can always install a LPG system on it and now it becomes even cheaper to run it. Unfortunately the next T4 model is a little too big. For a similar example that comes from Eastern Europe also look at UAZ-452 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAZ-452 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAZ-452), that's a very durable and reasonably cheap car that can handle almost anything.
      - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
        I love how the Wikipedia page for the UAZ-452 highlights from the 2011 upgrade the exciting new feature "seat belts". I was going to ask about airbags, silly me.
  - 10y ago
rihegher 10y ago
"Murray says the inspiration for the dynamics came from the Renault 4, once a much-loved off-roader in Africa and Southern Europe." for those who are interested the renault 4 also called 4l is used for an international race run by student every year since 20 years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4L_Trophy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4L_Trophy
swatkat 10y ago
Design looks similar to Australian OKA 4WD ATV[1]. Hindustan Motors in India used to manufacture a licensed version called RTV, back in the 90s. [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20121021203320/http://www.oka.com.au/ http://web.archive.org/web/20121021203320/http://www.oka.com... [2] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.thehindu.com/2001/06/23/stories/06230005.htm http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.the...
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Similar problems, similar solutions.
sandebert 10y ago
”Three trained (but not necessarily expert) people can put an OX together in approximately 12 hours.” (from http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/ http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/) I'd love for them to put up a full 12 hour video on YouTube showing the whole process, with no fancy editing or disturbing music. Just three engineers working away in a big, empty hall, turning a package into an OX. I imagine it would be mesmerizing to watch.
- loxs 10y ago
  I recommend you watch the ongoing Project Binky series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGSOZAHg1yQEatqhWza_ae83e313-GLTO https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGSOZAHg1yQEatqhWza_a...
  - MagerValp 10y ago
    Project Binky is pretty much the opposite of what the GP asks for though, they're clearly experts and it's taken much more than 12 hours :) But Binky is hands down my favorite thing on YouTube, though Clickspring would have to come in second: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCworsKCR-Sx6R6-BnIjS2MA/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCworsKCR-Sx6R6-BnIjS2MA/vid...
- ian_cyw 10y ago
  http://bbc.in/2cDfN82 http://bbc.in/2cDfN82 Video of the 12 hour assembly here.
- bloat 10y ago
  Not real time, but entertaining nonetheless. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b076nwjz http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b076nwjz
- mattsouth 10y ago
  Never mind watching it, that sounds like a treat of a weekend activity to me.
ChuckMcM 10y ago
Boy, this would be pretty fun to hack. I can imagine the RV possibilities.
mrb 10y ago
This reminds me of the soldiers who can disassemble and reassemble an entire Jeep in 3 minutes: http://www.military.com/video/logistics-and-supplies/military-vehicles/soldiers-strip-and-rebuild-jeep-in-minutes/694682404001/ http://www.military.com/video/logistics-and-supplies/militar...
andyidsinga 10y ago
very cool ..I would buy one. I'm assuming there's more to the name...unlike normal trucks that can only go up to 10, this one can go all the way to 0xB ;)
noonespecial 10y ago
So about the same price as a brand new Hilux? Which are already produced 100's of thousands per year and are already all over the place in the developing world. I've got much respect for Gordon Murray but did I miss something here? At something like 1/3 the price he might be on to something, but like this, its just another rattle-trap diesel truck only suitable for 3rd world use. They've got lots of those already. Plus at a cost that high to start with, I'm not sure "you can save a few bucks in shipping if you put it together like an IKEA couch" is actually a feature.
- willvarfar 10y ago
  > And most of all, despite its strength, the OX has an extraordinary weight-to-payload ratio. It weighs just over 1,700kg ready to roll, but can carry another 1,800kg. Most pickups weigh much more yet will shoulder much less. A standard Ford F150 or Toyota Hilux takes barely 1,000kg. > And because the OX is much cheaper, a buyer could have a bigger fleet. “There is just no competition, anywhere,” says Murray. “OXen would have a five times ratio of carrying capacity to cost versus Hiluxes.”
  - ddeck 10y ago
    >“There is just no competition, anywhere,” says Murray. How about a jeepney then? Perhaps the Ox has an advantage for extremely rugged terrain, but it's hardly cheap. In the Philippines for example, a brand new 20 passenger jeepney costs GBP 8k: "For the record, a fully-appointed 20-passenger jeepney--with an "Isuzu 4BC1 engine, 75-percent stainless-steel body, stereo system, stickers, halogen lights, side aluminum jalousies"--is priced at P510,000 if you buy it in cash" [1] That was in 2011, but prices remain similar. [1] http://www.topgear.com.ph/features/feature-articles/how-much-does-a-jeepney-cost-these-days http://www.topgear.com.ph/features/feature-articles/how-much...
    - handedness 10y ago
      The Ox's kit will be manufactured in the UK, where the average wage is 11x higher than in the Philippines. That aside, Jeepneys are horrendous vehicles for anything other than their primary use: going from stop to stop on flat ground, while carrying human cargo with a high turnover rate. The Jeepney weighs twice as much as the Ox and struggles with any incline (up or down–given the weight and their generally shoddy brakes, stopping quickly is out of the question), handles poorly with suspension that would have been unsophisticated a half a century ago, and becomes a hazard at any speed above gridlock. The cargo capacity of the two appears to be significantly different, as the Jeepney's optimized around having two benches for people–the rear opening is positively small for cargo, removing the bench is a hassle (if it isn't welded in place to begin with), and the roof is fixed, giving no allowance for oddly-shaped cargo. The two vehicles are hardly comparable.
dmingod666 10y ago
Thank God, the developing world was just waiting for this. You my friend have relieved the white man's burden. Do you know that the poorer the people in the county the lesser intellegencethey they have. True Story. We need more white people like you to save us. </sarcasm> BTW, there is something know as market dynamics that work even in the developing world. So, thanks. It's too expensive we'll do just fine without it. Cheers!
- SubiculumCode 10y ago
  prick.
  - dx034 10y ago
    True, but he has a point. All the work that adds value is done in the UK and it's designed to evade local taxes. The article even mentions that safety relevant steps are performed in the UK, as if this wasn't possible in developing countries. How is a country supposed to develop a well functioning industry if they are only trusted with an IKEA-like manual? If the UN buys this vehicle it's basically just rich states subsidizing a company in a rich state. The local economy loses out. This is how most aid projects worked in the last decades and it obviously hasn't really helped. The intentions are good, but this won't help developing countries more than just importing old used European/American cars.
    - neoCrimeLabs 10y ago
      Even if the trucks themselves don't end up being helpful in the long run, I suspect some of the manufacturing techniques used will reappear in future developments.
    - allengeorge 10y ago
      You don't have to do everything in a local economy to unlock value. The majority of vehicles in developing countries aren't manufactured locally, but their presence makes other lines of business possible. It might even provide impetus for civil society to improve infrastructure that...(hopefully!) pushes that country up the value chain.
tajen 10y ago
Part of the immature me wishes we don't invent new diesel trucks for developing countries, especially not with the goal of making it accessible to massive new markets. Doing so will extremely accelerate the global warming and local cancerigen pollution, both of which are there for the duration of the vehicle line (40 years?). I wish we'd start issuing electric models and portable ...nuclear plants? Solar systems? With wifi? This is childish, but the irresponsible pollution aspect of new diesel vehicles is worth pointing out.
- pif 10y ago
  > I wish we'd start issuing electric models Oil is a form _and_ a source of energy. Electricity is a just a form of energy. Which alternative source do you propose?
  - tajen 10y ago
    As written above: > ...nuclear plants? Solar systems? More seriously, it's very important to consider that centralization of electricity production, even from coal or oil, allows a lot more pollution control than a hundred million vehicles each carrying a mini-combustion engine on the roads. Cars get lighter, and the factory can get efficient re-burners, soot filters, emit pollution outside cities, and benefit from future tech like CO2 burial. Heck, the country can even decide to shut down coal plants, go nuclear, hydroelectric or 100% renewable. Which is impossible if it's a matter of replacing 50 million cars. So, yes, an electric car in a country that produces 100% of its energy from coal is still much more ecologic than a combustion engine. The keyword is: centralization of energy production. Elon Musk is no fool. He beat 9 competitors with a total of $461bn market cap, because he got that before we did.
    - creshal 10y ago
      > He beat 9 competitors with a total of $461bn market cap At what? Internet points? Tesla has still a negligible total market share, because even first-world countries don't yet have the necessary infrastructure for an all-electric car fleet. How's that supposed to work in third-world countries, where you can count yourself lucky to have dirt roads? For a utility truck, where weight efficiency matters? And what about longevity? Reliability? Reparability? Tesla's batteries aren't even designed to survive five years, and if they're punctured, impossible to repair. Gas tanks can be fixed with duct tape and swearing, and diesel engines in minimally equipped workshops with spare parts that are lightweight enough you can ship them on a bicycle.
grecy 10y ago
Not much information on the diesel engine used. Is it a Common Rail, computer-controlled diesel? I'm in West Africa now, and the diesel quality down here means you really want an all-mechanical injection pump, not a CRD. Cool idea, but he's got to remember that virtually no body down here (save the UN and big NGOs) buys new vehicles. They're all clapped-out things shipped in from Europe - even the land cruisers have 400,000+ kms on them when they get here.
- PieterH 10y ago
  Yes, but I think the Ox changes the economics, if it really works as presented. I've family in Congo DRC. We could buy four of these and some spare parts for 50,000 USD and start a bush taxi business for one high value route. The income will pay for repairs and salaries plus some profit to accumulate. I'd expect to expand the fleet slowly yet surely. The main risk as always, theft rather than lack of demand or revenue. More over, the vehicles would not fall in value, much or at all. Assuming, again, the claims of the makers are true. There is money to spend in such countries, via the diasporas, agencies, local wealthier people. The difficulty is always to avoid being ripped off. And the purchase price is going to fall a lot when the Chinese clones hit the market, which they will.
- douche 10y ago
  In anything that is going to be used hard out in the boonies, no matter where you are, you really want the simplest, toughest, all-mechanical diesel engine you can get your hands on. You should be able to tear it down and put it back together with a modest set of mechanic's hand tools. Source: too many hours in my childhood out in the mud or snow helping my father work on the Detroit diesels in his skidders.
- exDM69 10y ago
  > Not much information on the diesel engine used. It does mention that it's an off-the-shelf Ford Transit diesel engine and transmission. I'm sure you can find the answers to the rest of your questions based on that.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
ajuc 10y ago
If developed world works anything like 90s Poland - people would prefer used cars with more features/better comfort to a new car with less features/worse comfort. For carrying capacity it's nowhere near a tractor + a trailer combo. And also tractor can drive anywhere, even places that 4WD won't, not mentioning weird 2WD. It seems to be a cool project not solving any particular problem.
gambiting 10y ago
Wasn't an ultra cheap Chinese-made truck banned in EU, because in a head-on crash at 30mph the whole cabin would just basically fold into itself, killing everyone inside - does this extremely simple design not suffer from the same problem?
JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Designed to be hand-manufactured - no robots. Interesting choice. Is it because labor is cheaper where this might be made? But its made in England...
- exDM69 10y ago
  Parts of the automotive industry is moving back to hand-manufacturing for a lot of different reasons. So far, out of the big manufactures, it's only been used for premium cars (I think Audi and BMW are two examples, and not every model from them). There's a lot of reasons that might be in favor of good old manual labor instead of high tech robotics. There is mass unemployment all over Europe at the moment. including UK. Untrained labor might not be as expensive as you think, especially compared to the guys who can design, install and operate automotive manufacturing robots. It does make sense to use robots and CNC for machining and parts manufacture (where you'd need skilled labor) but the assembly line work is pretty straightforward. Especially in vehicles such as this. Another aspect is volume. This doesn't seem to be a high volume vehicle, at least initially. It would cost a lot to set up an automated factory for this kind of product. Finally, this car was designed to be shipped unassembled and be put together by the customer or a distributor, which might not be in the UK.
- rcoder 10y ago
  The tooling and engineering required for a modern car (even just a refresh of an existing model) costs hundreds of millions of dollars. Ignoring that cost automation might be cheaper, but if you expect to produce thousands, not millions, you're almost certainly better off using old-school machine-shop equipment and processes. Going that route also lets you do manufacturing closer to the intended market, vs. requiring supply chain, power, and other infrastructure that could be in short supply in the developing world.
pinaceae 10y ago
The overall design is a riff of the Steyr Pinzgauer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinzgauer_High-Mobility_All-Terrain_Vehicle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinzgauer_High-Mobility_All-... The British Army is using them, so Murray has likely been inspired by it. It was designed for Mountains in Austria, is pretty much unbeatable in tough terrain - just put on chains and gogogo. Original had petrol engines, not diesel to avoid freezing up in winter conditions. As a driver in the Austrian Army we basically learned the whole thing front to back, assemble and disassemble like a rifle. Such a fun ride.
cbr 10y ago
I was curious what it looked like flat-packed: http://oxgvt.com/wp-content/uploads/Flat-Packing2.jpg http://oxgvt.com/wp-content/uploads/Flat-Packing2.jpg
- jonknee 10y ago
  Thank you! I can't believe that wasn't in the article.
afarrell 10y ago
Could this be easily disassembled and stored in a way that it doesn't degrade while in storage? If so, could the same design techniques be applied to building MRAPs that don't end up as military surplus?
digi_owl 10y ago
The first thing that came to mind was the WV Beetle.
vessenes 10y ago
I can't believe I'm the only commenter who seems to want one of these. I really want one of these. I'd like my kids to be able to mess around with car repair as they get older, and this just seems perfect for teenagers -- camping, glamping, drive 11 closest friends around -- seriously, I love this. This is just a very modern car/truck. I love it.
- tsomctl 10y ago
  Get an old Toyota pickup. They go anywhere, reliable, cheap, easy to work on, parts are cheap.
  - exDM69 10y ago
    Old Toyota Hilux pickups are hard to come by (in any kind of decent shape) and if you happen to find one, be prepared to pay a lot of money. Even here in northern Europe, a mid-1980s Hilux might sell for 5000 eur in a barely runnable condition. There are two reasons, first: these things are easy to repair but spare parts are an issue. Second: it can be in quite shitty condition and can still be sold to Africa for a decent amount of money. Then there's the indestructible reputation that surely brings up the price.
  - vessenes 10y ago
    I've had a Hilux for Africa trips, they're great. But, a modern one has a lot of tech. And, old ones are pretty nasty typically. This is more in the "Open Source Ecology" style of design, which I love.
- dougmany 10y ago
  >this serial philanthropist spent around £3 million to get the vehicle designed, prototyped and much of the way to production. Another similar amount, its creators reckon, would finish developing the OX, and build the factory. Sounds like a Kickstarter is in order.
kragen 10y ago
Can some Englishperson kindly explain to me what these phrases mean? - "sand ladders" - "a blockable front brake" - "a six-speed power take off" Also, why is there no video? Doesn't Top Gear have anyone on staff who can edit video? Or am I just missing the link?
- schismsubv 10y ago
  Not English, but easy enough. - A sand ladder is a weight distribution mechanism that may be used to improve traction on loose materials. You can achieve the same effect by putting a board under a tire when stuck in sand or snow. - A blockable front brake would allow you to lock one wheel, allowing spinning the other freely. If that other one were jacked up out of earth contact, the adapter provided would allow you to easily connect the wheel to a standard PTO, with the advantage of a transmission. This would allow you to pump water, generate electricity at a larger scale, run stationary farm implements, etc.
  - kragen 10y ago
    Thank you! I hadn't heard of a PTO before.
thesmok 10y ago
Looks like OX is doing the same to trucks what Raspberry Pi did to computers.

308 points by kaishiro 10y ago

Nux 10y ago

It looks like you'd need a cat C license to drive this (in UK), alas. Still, the DIY-er in me loves the idea, hope they do well and get even cheaper.

tarikjn 10y ago

When Gordon Murray designs a truck, it's worth paying attention. The McLaren F1 road car pioneered a lot of new and creative technology that is still trickling down in consumer cars today, while remaining an excellently built car loved by enthusiasts and that has appreciated in value several folds. It almost defined the brand of form following function in super cars. McLaren are also known for building a lot of their own parts and tools down to the nuts versus using suppliers. Given Gordon Murray's attention to details, there is probably a lot more interesting things about this truck than the article can mention.

cromulent 10y ago
I haven't heard much about his iStream technology recently. I wonder if anyone but Yamaha has taken it up. http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a6665/gordon-murray-i-stream-website/ http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/news/a6665/gordon-mu... Murray "... even claimed that the process is so simplified that Walmart or Apple could use it to start manufacturing cars."
- jonah 10y ago
  the BMW i3 is probably the closest production vehicle. It's pretty revolutionary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDr4L6BzpP8
  - fwr 10y ago
    Is there a text version or an article about this?
    - jonah 10y ago
      The full report is available for $500k! DDG says: http://www.hybridcars.com/teardown-reveals-bmw-i3-is-most-advanced-vehicle-on-the-planet/ http://www.hybridcars.com/teardown-reveals-bmw-i3-is-most-ad... http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/01/05/reverse-engineering-bmw-i3/ http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/01/05/reverse-engineering-bmw-i3... http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2015/01/04/video-unlocking-the-secrets-of-bmws-remarkable-car-of-the-future/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2015/01/04/video-unl... But for more you'll just have to do some searching.
  - patrickk 10y ago
    This is extraordinary. Thanks for sharing. It's amazing that BMW aren't shouting about this from the rooftops. They mention something about social media on the page for the i3 (at least on my local site) but nothing about the manufacturing process used for the body and the other innovations.
- cbartlett 10y ago
  I believe it's used in the new TVR project.
- exDM69 10y ago
  Gordon Murray comments in the article that iStream was an inspiration and lessons learned from that project were applied to the OX. And the concept is taken much further too, the idea of iStream was to replace hard-to-manufacture precision moulded and welded panels used in consturcting the chassis with much simpler tubular construction (while using modern designs to get the rigidity and durability). The entire OX chassis is built with flat panels (from "engineered plywood", I think that's a wood + aluminium composite) and straight tubes, making it really simple to manufacture and assemble but rigid and strong. This is also where the race car designer background comes into play. Back when he got started, it was all tubular frame construction for the lower end and riveted aluminium monocoques for the top end. Of course his best known works are from the early carbon fiber composite era (mid 1980s) but his background in chassis rigidity must really help.
wycx 10y ago
Gordon Murray is also responsible for the BT-46B fancar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46#Brabham_BT46B.C2.A0.E2.80.93_the_.22fan_car.22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46#Brabham_BT46B.C2....

forkandwait 10y ago

I want one! Where do I order? Anybody know about the emissions and if you can drive it in the US (non-California)? I also wonder if the parts are easy and standard enough to make in more widely distributed factories. Seems the revolution waiting to happen is when a small country can make at least some of the parts in a small factory and trade with other similar partners to commodify the ecosystem, like PCs in the 1990s etc.

seltzered_ 10y ago
http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/ http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/ - is the official site and shows an image of the flatpack. I'm going to take a guess that this wouldn't meet US safety standards, it's design intent really seems for serving the developing world.
Animats 10y ago
The Ford Transit is available with an engine that meets California standards, so it could be made emissions-compliant. Crashworthyness, though... There's not much crush depth in that thing. The driver is up front. Did they install ABS?
jonah 10y ago
As a " kit car" I suspect you can legally register and drive it. They're not held to the same standards as a production vehicle.
- ChuckMcM 10y ago
  Exactly one, but yes you can register it.
CPAhem 10y ago
Looks like a great idea. Unfortunately, in most of the developed world, it does not look like it would not pass the occupant safety regulations.
- allengeorge 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

bikamonki 10y ago

How exactly is £10-15000 cheap in developing countries?

kbart 10y ago
Yeah, that was my first mind too. Nobody, bar few magnates, in developing world buys new cars. You can get a used truck for few thousand or less bucks there. Nice idea, but I really doubt we will see many of these trucks used for its intended purpose.
- hexane360 10y ago
  And how much do you think a used Ox will go for? Not to mention the increased storage and versatility.
  - paganel 10y ago
    Not the OP, and I do not live in Africa, but in Eastern Europe, where paying 10-15,000 euros/pounds/$ for a car is also seen as expensive by a lot of people (I couldn't afford it, that's for sure). Looking on the roads around me the VW T3 is really popular around here for people who want to get things done, you can find decent enough examples at around 800-1000 euros (I know because I also looked at purchasing one). The repairs are easy to do, lots of spare parts available, and if you think diesel is too expensive you can always install a LPG system on it and now it becomes even cheaper to run it. Unfortunately the next T4 model is a little too big. For a similar example that comes from Eastern Europe also look at UAZ-452 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAZ-452 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAZ-452), that's a very durable and reasonably cheap car that can handle almost anything.
    - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
      I love how the Wikipedia page for the UAZ-452 highlights from the 2011 upgrade the exciting new feature "seat belts". I was going to ask about airbags, silly me.
- 10y ago

rihegher 10y ago

"Murray says the inspiration for the dynamics came from the Renault 4, once a much-loved off-roader in Africa and Southern Europe." for those who are interested the renault 4 also called 4l is used for an international race run by student every year since 20 years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4L_Trophy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4L_Trophy

swatkat 10y ago

Design looks similar to Australian OKA 4WD ATV[1]. Hindustan Motors in India used to manufacture a licensed version called RTV, back in the 90s. [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20121021203320/http://www.oka.com.au/ http://web.archive.org/web/20121021203320/http://www.oka.com... [2] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.thehindu.com/2001/06/23/stories/06230005.htm http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.the...

digi_owl 10y ago
Similar problems, similar solutions.

sandebert 10y ago

”Three trained (but not necessarily expert) people can put an OX together in approximately 12 hours.” (from http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/ http://oxgvt.com/the-ox-all-terrain-vehicle/) I'd love for them to put up a full 12 hour video on YouTube showing the whole process, with no fancy editing or disturbing music. Just three engineers working away in a big, empty hall, turning a package into an OX. I imagine it would be mesmerizing to watch.

loxs 10y ago
I recommend you watch the ongoing Project Binky series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGSOZAHg1yQEatqhWza_ae83e313-GLTO https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGSOZAHg1yQEatqhWza_a...
- MagerValp 10y ago
  Project Binky is pretty much the opposite of what the GP asks for though, they're clearly experts and it's taken much more than 12 hours :) But Binky is hands down my favorite thing on YouTube, though Clickspring would have to come in second: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCworsKCR-Sx6R6-BnIjS2MA/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCworsKCR-Sx6R6-BnIjS2MA/vid...
ian_cyw 10y ago
http://bbc.in/2cDfN82 http://bbc.in/2cDfN82 Video of the 12 hour assembly here.
bloat 10y ago
Not real time, but entertaining nonetheless. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b076nwjz http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b076nwjz
mattsouth 10y ago
Never mind watching it, that sounds like a treat of a weekend activity to me.

ChuckMcM 10y ago

Boy, this would be pretty fun to hack. I can imagine the RV possibilities.

mrb 10y ago

This reminds me of the soldiers who can disassemble and reassemble an entire Jeep in 3 minutes: http://www.military.com/video/logistics-and-supplies/military-vehicles/soldiers-strip-and-rebuild-jeep-in-minutes/694682404001/ http://www.military.com/video/logistics-and-supplies/militar...

andyidsinga 10y ago

very cool ..I would buy one. I'm assuming there's more to the name...unlike normal trucks that can only go up to 10, this one can go all the way to 0xB ;)

noonespecial 10y ago

So about the same price as a brand new Hilux? Which are already produced 100's of thousands per year and are already all over the place in the developing world. I've got much respect for Gordon Murray but did I miss something here? At something like 1/3 the price he might be on to something, but like this, its just another rattle-trap diesel truck only suitable for 3rd world use. They've got lots of those already. Plus at a cost that high to start with, I'm not sure "you can save a few bucks in shipping if you put it together like an IKEA couch" is actually a feature.

willvarfar 10y ago
> And most of all, despite its strength, the OX has an extraordinary weight-to-payload ratio. It weighs just over 1,700kg ready to roll, but can carry another 1,800kg. Most pickups weigh much more yet will shoulder much less. A standard Ford F150 or Toyota Hilux takes barely 1,000kg. > And because the OX is much cheaper, a buyer could have a bigger fleet. “There is just no competition, anywhere,” says Murray. “OXen would have a five times ratio of carrying capacity to cost versus Hiluxes.”
- ddeck 10y ago
  >“There is just no competition, anywhere,” says Murray. How about a jeepney then? Perhaps the Ox has an advantage for extremely rugged terrain, but it's hardly cheap. In the Philippines for example, a brand new 20 passenger jeepney costs GBP 8k: "For the record, a fully-appointed 20-passenger jeepney--with an "Isuzu 4BC1 engine, 75-percent stainless-steel body, stereo system, stickers, halogen lights, side aluminum jalousies"--is priced at P510,000 if you buy it in cash" [1] That was in 2011, but prices remain similar. [1] http://www.topgear.com.ph/features/feature-articles/how-much-does-a-jeepney-cost-these-days http://www.topgear.com.ph/features/feature-articles/how-much...
  - handedness 10y ago
    The Ox's kit will be manufactured in the UK, where the average wage is 11x higher than in the Philippines. That aside, Jeepneys are horrendous vehicles for anything other than their primary use: going from stop to stop on flat ground, while carrying human cargo with a high turnover rate. The Jeepney weighs twice as much as the Ox and struggles with any incline (up or down–given the weight and their generally shoddy brakes, stopping quickly is out of the question), handles poorly with suspension that would have been unsophisticated a half a century ago, and becomes a hazard at any speed above gridlock. The cargo capacity of the two appears to be significantly different, as the Jeepney's optimized around having two benches for people–the rear opening is positively small for cargo, removing the bench is a hassle (if it isn't welded in place to begin with), and the roof is fixed, giving no allowance for oddly-shaped cargo. The two vehicles are hardly comparable.

dmingod666 10y ago

Thank God, the developing world was just waiting for this. You my friend have relieved the white man's burden. Do you know that the poorer the people in the county the lesser intellegencethey they have. True Story. We need more white people like you to save us. </sarcasm> BTW, there is something know as market dynamics that work even in the developing world. So, thanks. It's too expensive we'll do just fine without it. Cheers!

SubiculumCode 10y ago
prick.
- dx034 10y ago
  True, but he has a point. All the work that adds value is done in the UK and it's designed to evade local taxes. The article even mentions that safety relevant steps are performed in the UK, as if this wasn't possible in developing countries. How is a country supposed to develop a well functioning industry if they are only trusted with an IKEA-like manual? If the UN buys this vehicle it's basically just rich states subsidizing a company in a rich state. The local economy loses out. This is how most aid projects worked in the last decades and it obviously hasn't really helped. The intentions are good, but this won't help developing countries more than just importing old used European/American cars.
  - neoCrimeLabs 10y ago
    Even if the trucks themselves don't end up being helpful in the long run, I suspect some of the manufacturing techniques used will reappear in future developments.
  - allengeorge 10y ago
    You don't have to do everything in a local economy to unlock value. The majority of vehicles in developing countries aren't manufactured locally, but their presence makes other lines of business possible. It might even provide impetus for civil society to improve infrastructure that...(hopefully!) pushes that country up the value chain.

tajen 10y ago

Part of the immature me wishes we don't invent new diesel trucks for developing countries, especially not with the goal of making it accessible to massive new markets. Doing so will extremely accelerate the global warming and local cancerigen pollution, both of which are there for the duration of the vehicle line (40 years?). I wish we'd start issuing electric models and portable ...nuclear plants? Solar systems? With wifi? This is childish, but the irresponsible pollution aspect of new diesel vehicles is worth pointing out.

pif 10y ago
> I wish we'd start issuing electric models Oil is a form _and_ a source of energy. Electricity is a just a form of energy. Which alternative source do you propose?
- tajen 10y ago
  As written above: > ...nuclear plants? Solar systems? More seriously, it's very important to consider that centralization of electricity production, even from coal or oil, allows a lot more pollution control than a hundred million vehicles each carrying a mini-combustion engine on the roads. Cars get lighter, and the factory can get efficient re-burners, soot filters, emit pollution outside cities, and benefit from future tech like CO2 burial. Heck, the country can even decide to shut down coal plants, go nuclear, hydroelectric or 100% renewable. Which is impossible if it's a matter of replacing 50 million cars. So, yes, an electric car in a country that produces 100% of its energy from coal is still much more ecologic than a combustion engine. The keyword is: centralization of energy production. Elon Musk is no fool. He beat 9 competitors with a total of $461bn market cap, because he got that before we did.
  - creshal 10y ago
    > He beat 9 competitors with a total of $461bn market cap At what? Internet points? Tesla has still a negligible total market share, because even first-world countries don't yet have the necessary infrastructure for an all-electric car fleet. How's that supposed to work in third-world countries, where you can count yourself lucky to have dirt roads? For a utility truck, where weight efficiency matters? And what about longevity? Reliability? Reparability? Tesla's batteries aren't even designed to survive five years, and if they're punctured, impossible to repair. Gas tanks can be fixed with duct tape and swearing, and diesel engines in minimally equipped workshops with spare parts that are lightweight enough you can ship them on a bicycle.

grecy 10y ago

Not much information on the diesel engine used. Is it a Common Rail, computer-controlled diesel? I'm in West Africa now, and the diesel quality down here means you really want an all-mechanical injection pump, not a CRD. Cool idea, but he's got to remember that virtually no body down here (save the UN and big NGOs) buys new vehicles. They're all clapped-out things shipped in from Europe - even the land cruisers have 400,000+ kms on them when they get here.

PieterH 10y ago
Yes, but I think the Ox changes the economics, if it really works as presented. I've family in Congo DRC. We could buy four of these and some spare parts for 50,000 USD and start a bush taxi business for one high value route. The income will pay for repairs and salaries plus some profit to accumulate. I'd expect to expand the fleet slowly yet surely. The main risk as always, theft rather than lack of demand or revenue. More over, the vehicles would not fall in value, much or at all. Assuming, again, the claims of the makers are true. There is money to spend in such countries, via the diasporas, agencies, local wealthier people. The difficulty is always to avoid being ripped off. And the purchase price is going to fall a lot when the Chinese clones hit the market, which they will.
douche 10y ago
In anything that is going to be used hard out in the boonies, no matter where you are, you really want the simplest, toughest, all-mechanical diesel engine you can get your hands on. You should be able to tear it down and put it back together with a modest set of mechanic's hand tools. Source: too many hours in my childhood out in the mud or snow helping my father work on the Detroit diesels in his skidders.
exDM69 10y ago
> Not much information on the diesel engine used. It does mention that it's an off-the-shelf Ford Transit diesel engine and transmission. I'm sure you can find the answers to the rest of your questions based on that.
- maxerickson 10y ago

ajuc 10y ago

If developed world works anything like 90s Poland - people would prefer used cars with more features/better comfort to a new car with less features/worse comfort. For carrying capacity it's nowhere near a tractor + a trailer combo. And also tractor can drive anywhere, even places that 4WD won't, not mentioning weird 2WD. It seems to be a cool project not solving any particular problem.

gambiting 10y ago

Wasn't an ultra cheap Chinese-made truck banned in EU, because in a head-on crash at 30mph the whole cabin would just basically fold into itself, killing everyone inside - does this extremely simple design not suffer from the same problem?

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

Designed to be hand-manufactured - no robots. Interesting choice. Is it because labor is cheaper where this might be made? But its made in England...

exDM69 10y ago
Parts of the automotive industry is moving back to hand-manufacturing for a lot of different reasons. So far, out of the big manufactures, it's only been used for premium cars (I think Audi and BMW are two examples, and not every model from them). There's a lot of reasons that might be in favor of good old manual labor instead of high tech robotics. There is mass unemployment all over Europe at the moment. including UK. Untrained labor might not be as expensive as you think, especially compared to the guys who can design, install and operate automotive manufacturing robots. It does make sense to use robots and CNC for machining and parts manufacture (where you'd need skilled labor) but the assembly line work is pretty straightforward. Especially in vehicles such as this. Another aspect is volume. This doesn't seem to be a high volume vehicle, at least initially. It would cost a lot to set up an automated factory for this kind of product. Finally, this car was designed to be shipped unassembled and be put together by the customer or a distributor, which might not be in the UK.
rcoder 10y ago
The tooling and engineering required for a modern car (even just a refresh of an existing model) costs hundreds of millions of dollars. Ignoring that cost automation might be cheaper, but if you expect to produce thousands, not millions, you're almost certainly better off using old-school machine-shop equipment and processes. Going that route also lets you do manufacturing closer to the intended market, vs. requiring supply chain, power, and other infrastructure that could be in short supply in the developing world.

pinaceae 10y ago

The overall design is a riff of the Steyr Pinzgauer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinzgauer_High-Mobility_All-Terrain_Vehicle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinzgauer_High-Mobility_All-... The British Army is using them, so Murray has likely been inspired by it. It was designed for Mountains in Austria, is pretty much unbeatable in tough terrain - just put on chains and gogogo. Original had petrol engines, not diesel to avoid freezing up in winter conditions. As a driver in the Austrian Army we basically learned the whole thing front to back, assemble and disassemble like a rifle. Such a fun ride.

cbr 10y ago

I was curious what it looked like flat-packed: http://oxgvt.com/wp-content/uploads/Flat-Packing2.jpg http://oxgvt.com/wp-content/uploads/Flat-Packing2.jpg

jonknee 10y ago
Thank you! I can't believe that wasn't in the article.

afarrell 10y ago

Could this be easily disassembled and stored in a way that it doesn't degrade while in storage? If so, could the same design techniques be applied to building MRAPs that don't end up as military surplus?

digi_owl 10y ago

The first thing that came to mind was the WV Beetle.

vessenes 10y ago

I can't believe I'm the only commenter who seems to want one of these. I really want one of these. I'd like my kids to be able to mess around with car repair as they get older, and this just seems perfect for teenagers -- camping, glamping, drive 11 closest friends around -- seriously, I love this. This is just a very modern car/truck. I love it.

tsomctl 10y ago
Get an old Toyota pickup. They go anywhere, reliable, cheap, easy to work on, parts are cheap.
- exDM69 10y ago
  Old Toyota Hilux pickups are hard to come by (in any kind of decent shape) and if you happen to find one, be prepared to pay a lot of money. Even here in northern Europe, a mid-1980s Hilux might sell for 5000 eur in a barely runnable condition. There are two reasons, first: these things are easy to repair but spare parts are an issue. Second: it can be in quite shitty condition and can still be sold to Africa for a decent amount of money. Then there's the indestructible reputation that surely brings up the price.
- vessenes 10y ago
  I've had a Hilux for Africa trips, they're great. But, a modern one has a lot of tech. And, old ones are pretty nasty typically. This is more in the "Open Source Ecology" style of design, which I love.
dougmany 10y ago
>this serial philanthropist spent around £3 million to get the vehicle designed, prototyped and much of the way to production. Another similar amount, its creators reckon, would finish developing the OX, and build the factory. Sounds like a Kickstarter is in order.

kragen 10y ago

Can some Englishperson kindly explain to me what these phrases mean? - "sand ladders" - "a blockable front brake" - "a six-speed power take off" Also, why is there no video? Doesn't Top Gear have anyone on staff who can edit video? Or am I just missing the link?

schismsubv 10y ago
Not English, but easy enough. - A sand ladder is a weight distribution mechanism that may be used to improve traction on loose materials. You can achieve the same effect by putting a board under a tire when stuck in sand or snow. - A blockable front brake would allow you to lock one wheel, allowing spinning the other freely. If that other one were jacked up out of earth contact, the adapter provided would allow you to easily connect the wheel to a standard PTO, with the advantage of a transmission. This would allow you to pump water, generate electricity at a larger scale, run stationary farm implements, etc.
- kragen 10y ago
  Thank you! I hadn't heard of a PTO before.

thesmok 10y ago

Looks like OX is doing the same to trucks what Raspberry Pi did to computers.