5 ms·

How can you claim this is not a drug? It has a physiological effect when ingested.

by zild3d 10y ago

fapjacks 10y ago
Well, cheese has a physiolocial effect when ingested. In fact, chemicals in cheese are known to bind to opioid receptors in our brains. But we don't call cheese a drug, do we? I think it's safe to say that Kratom isn't properly characterized as a "drug" in the same way that the DEA is characterizing it as a "drug".
- metaphorm 10y ago
  people aren't eating it for its nutritional value. don't be ridiculous. it's being taken for medicinal purposes.
  - fapjacks 10y ago
    People aren't taking it to get high.
    - 20after4 10y ago
      Actually, some people _are_ taking it to get high. I have seen people use it to help with Opiate addiction, however, I have also seen people use it recreationally. A couple of capsules of ground up kratom leaf have effects similar to a low dose of Vicodin.
    - metaphorm 10y ago
      that's not what I said. pay attention. "medicinal purposes". look, you can drop the pretense here. nobody gives a shit. you have an agenda. that's fine. state it clearly and don't think you won't get called out for distorting the facts.
      - fapjacks 10y ago
        No need to be rude. I'm telling you my definition and why it isn't a drug.
      - novascotiabum 10y ago
        you're absolutely right. If we came to a consensus on the definition of what a drug is, we wouldn't have that much confusion going on. If we were to consider coffee, alcohol, cigarettes and cannabis drugs, this falls into a similar category. Cigarettes can have a euphoric effect sometimes referred as a "head rush" typically for new users though the effect goes away for addicted smokers and coffee has that effect in the morning where it ever so slightly perks you up since it's a stimulant. Kratom is somewhere around those but it's mostly similar to coffee sensation wise, though slightly stronger, but can have that slight euphoric effect as well, however that euphoria reaches a plateau nowhere beyond the effects of THC and taking more kratom will not get someone beyond that sensation. Kratom is also much less dangerous than alcohol and cigarettes, much like cannabis, but out of all of these, kratom does show signs of medicinal purposes, very much like cannabis. We have an agenda, and that is to spread awarness about having a say in how Americans choose their method of treatment, as well as having more than a few options. If someone does not feel inclined to use prescriptions drugs, or has and they have no effect, then they should have the option to use Kratom if they choose too. We also want to spread the correct information about kratom that avoids biases, but that can be hard for those of who it has helped so much. There's so much more info to go into, (but im doing this off the cuff and barely scratching the surface) but the point being I don't want your initial observation about our community to seem like we don't consider it a drug, it's just when people try to avoid that classification, it's because of the implication the word has had throughout history.
        metaphorm 10y ago
        coffee, alcohol, tobacco, and cannabis are all uncontroversially drugs. You can find lots of examples of interested parties who don't like the connotations of the word "drug" and therefore will deliberately use politicized, weasel-wordy speech to try and evade the label, but that doesn't really mean much besides that interested parties are interested parties. none of those substances are ingested as foods. what, then, is a thing that a person ingests but not for nutrition? that's a drug. medicinal and recreational purposes are both different use cases for drugs. why is this subject to debate? this is just the basics of what it means to be a human animal. you take things into your body. if its not for food its for something else, clearly. what do you propose we call non-food items that we ingest? I honestly don't care much about the politics of the now-suddenly-agrieved kratom user community. personally I'd vote in favor of full legalization but its not up to voters, the DEA is a very tyrannical agency and there isn't much accountability. Sorry dude, sucks, but that's how it is. We live in a prohibition state. I think the strategy of saying "kratom isn't a drug" is not going to be even remotely effective at persuading the DEA to change their mind though. Its just absurd, honestly. Reconsider your tactics.
metaphorm 10y ago
that moment when you realize that different people use the same words differently depending on their political agenda...
dahdum 10y ago
If you read the Erowid reports, sure as hell sounds like a drug... https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=60574 https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=60574 "3:45 ~ I start to feel this intense warmth come over my entire body, it feels like a combination of my first MDMA high with a nice OxyContin like twist, along with the social aspect of Cocaine. " https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=44963 https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=44963 "12:34-2:20- Between these hours I experienced the most fantastic high I have experienced. It is similar to an orgasm crossed with a MJ high. Shivers of warmth ran down my whole body and my fingers and other extremities went totally numb. I found myself playing a game in which I sat still in silence just experiencing these feelings. Any movement brought pleasant, warm tingling sensations all over my body although especially noticeable around the head and neck area. Any touch from another human was sensational and I found myself making excuses to be near people to feel their warmth and experience what I can only presume was their aura. There was a neutral sensation of pressure in my ears as well although that only added to my feelings of intoxication " https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=46082 https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=46082 "After living through this hell of a detox, I was afraid to even start again, but here was this pound of kratom, beckoning. So of course I brewed some up, and drank it. Ah, bliss! And now it only took me 12 grams to get the same effect that 18 used to give me!"
- fapjacks 10y ago
  Okay, that's pretty funny, I must admit. Kratom is like a weak version of coffee. Truly. So this kind of thing makes me chuckle. Can you imagine someone saying this about coffee?
  - forgetsusername 10y ago
    I agree. I've used Kratom recreationally. It kind of sucks. You have to consume a large amount for any effect (10+ grams) and it has the consistency of ground cinnamon, so you can't simply eat it. The people acting like a capsule is similar to a narcotic have likely never tried it. The high is subtle.
  - AstralStorm 10y ago

How can you claim this is not a drug? It has a physiological effect when ingested.

by zild3d 10y ago

How can you claim this is not a drug? It has a physiological effect when ingested.

Well, cheese has a physiolocial effect when ingested. In fact, chemicals in cheese are known to bind to opioid receptors in our brains. But we don't call cheese a drug, do we? I think it's safe to say that Kratom isn't properly characterized as a "drug" in the same way that the DEA is characterizing it as a "drug".

metaphorm 10y ago
people aren't eating it for its nutritional value. don't be ridiculous. it's being taken for medicinal purposes.
- fapjacks 10y ago
  People aren't taking it to get high.
  - 20after4 10y ago
    Actually, some people _are_ taking it to get high. I have seen people use it to help with Opiate addiction, however, I have also seen people use it recreationally. A couple of capsules of ground up kratom leaf have effects similar to a low dose of Vicodin.
  - metaphorm 10y ago
    that's not what I said. pay attention. "medicinal purposes". look, you can drop the pretense here. nobody gives a shit. you have an agenda. that's fine. state it clearly and don't think you won't get called out for distorting the facts.
    - fapjacks 10y ago
      No need to be rude. I'm telling you my definition and why it isn't a drug.
    - novascotiabum 10y ago
      you're absolutely right. If we came to a consensus on the definition of what a drug is, we wouldn't have that much confusion going on. If we were to consider coffee, alcohol, cigarettes and cannabis drugs, this falls into a similar category. Cigarettes can have a euphoric effect sometimes referred as a "head rush" typically for new users though the effect goes away for addicted smokers and coffee has that effect in the morning where it ever so slightly perks you up since it's a stimulant. Kratom is somewhere around those but it's mostly similar to coffee sensation wise, though slightly stronger, but can have that slight euphoric effect as well, however that euphoria reaches a plateau nowhere beyond the effects of THC and taking more kratom will not get someone beyond that sensation. Kratom is also much less dangerous than alcohol and cigarettes, much like cannabis, but out of all of these, kratom does show signs of medicinal purposes, very much like cannabis. We have an agenda, and that is to spread awarness about having a say in how Americans choose their method of treatment, as well as having more than a few options. If someone does not feel inclined to use prescriptions drugs, or has and they have no effect, then they should have the option to use Kratom if they choose too. We also want to spread the correct information about kratom that avoids biases, but that can be hard for those of who it has helped so much. There's so much more info to go into, (but im doing this off the cuff and barely scratching the surface) but the point being I don't want your initial observation about our community to seem like we don't consider it a drug, it's just when people try to avoid that classification, it's because of the implication the word has had throughout history.
      - metaphorm 10y ago
        coffee, alcohol, tobacco, and cannabis are all uncontroversially drugs. You can find lots of examples of interested parties who don't like the connotations of the word "drug" and therefore will deliberately use politicized, weasel-wordy speech to try and evade the label, but that doesn't really mean much besides that interested parties are interested parties. none of those substances are ingested as foods. what, then, is a thing that a person ingests but not for nutrition? that's a drug. medicinal and recreational purposes are both different use cases for drugs. why is this subject to debate? this is just the basics of what it means to be a human animal. you take things into your body. if its not for food its for something else, clearly. what do you propose we call non-food items that we ingest? I honestly don't care much about the politics of the now-suddenly-agrieved kratom user community. personally I'd vote in favor of full legalization but its not up to voters, the DEA is a very tyrannical agency and there isn't much accountability. Sorry dude, sucks, but that's how it is. We live in a prohibition state. I think the strategy of saying "kratom isn't a drug" is not going to be even remotely effective at persuading the DEA to change their mind though. Its just absurd, honestly. Reconsider your tactics.

metaphorm 10y ago

that moment when you realize that different people use the same words differently depending on their political agenda...

dahdum 10y ago

If you read the Erowid reports, sure as hell sounds like a drug... https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=60574 https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=60574 "3:45 ~ I start to feel this intense warmth come over my entire body, it feels like a combination of my first MDMA high with a nice OxyContin like twist, along with the social aspect of Cocaine. " https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=44963 https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=44963 "12:34-2:20- Between these hours I experienced the most fantastic high I have experienced. It is similar to an orgasm crossed with a MJ high. Shivers of warmth ran down my whole body and my fingers and other extremities went totally numb. I found myself playing a game in which I sat still in silence just experiencing these feelings. Any movement brought pleasant, warm tingling sensations all over my body although especially noticeable around the head and neck area. Any touch from another human was sensational and I found myself making excuses to be near people to feel their warmth and experience what I can only presume was their aura. There was a neutral sensation of pressure in my ears as well although that only added to my feelings of intoxication " https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=46082 https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=46082 "After living through this hell of a detox, I was afraid to even start again, but here was this pound of kratom, beckoning. So of course I brewed some up, and drank it. Ah, bliss! And now it only took me 12 grams to get the same effect that 18 used to give me!"

fapjacks 10y ago
Okay, that's pretty funny, I must admit. Kratom is like a weak version of coffee. Truly. So this kind of thing makes me chuckle. Can you imagine someone saying this about coffee?
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  I agree. I've used Kratom recreationally. It kind of sucks. You have to consume a large amount for any effect (10+ grams) and it has the consistency of ground cinnamon, so you can't simply eat it. The people acting like a capsule is similar to a narcotic have likely never tried it. The high is subtle.
- AstralStorm 10y ago