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Is it really Cheap Gasoline that's the cause of the decline? Seems more like Toyota's Prius is paying the price for hanging onto a decade-old product. The typ

Is it really Cheap Gasoline that's the cause of the decline? Seems more like Toyota's Prius is paying the price for hanging onto a decade-old product. The type of customer who would have bought a Prius in 2002, has moved on to EV's and PHEV's, and Toyota doesn't appear to be selling those yet. Cheap Gasoline hasn't stopped Tesla from racking up multi-year-long waiting lists for the Model 3. "CMAX Energ-i" and Volts and LEAFs can be bought today at decent prices. But Toyota's response -- the "Prius Prime" -- doesn't appear to be for sale yet.

mikeash 10y ago
Tesla's cars are awesome in just about every respect besides price. The Model 3 promises to preserve the awesomeness without the price tag. People want them, and it rarely has anything to do with saving money on gas. Priuses are kind of boring. (I owned one for a while so I hope I'm not too clueless on this.) They work, they're reliable, they're cheap to run, but few people come back from a Prius test drive thinking, holy shit, I'll do whatever it takes to own one of these cars. Nobody warns prospective Prius buyers, "don't test drive one unless you're ready to put down a bunch of money to buy it, because you will want to." If I had to buy a non-EV car again, I'd probably look at Priuses because efficiency pleases me, Toyota has a good reputation, and their stuff is pretty reliable, but it's not particularly compelling. For a lot of people, saving money on gas is the main reason to even consider a Prius. It's not even in most people's top 10 for a Model 3. Note that with a whopping 22 miles of electric range, the Prius Prime is far from a Model 3 competitor. Toyota seems to be betting on hydrogen rather than batteries, for reasons I've yet to comprehend, so I'd say their Model 3 competitor is the Mirai. Although I don't know why anyone would ever buy a Mirai.
- maxsilver 10y ago
  > Toyota seems to be betting on hydrogen rather than batteries, for reasons I've yet to comprehend I suspect this will go down in history as a major misstep. Especially given Toyota's experience / expertise in the space.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  >>Priuses are kind of boring. (I owned one for a while so I hope I'm not too clueless on this.) They work, they're reliable, they're cheap to run, but few people come back from a Prius test drive thinking, holy shit, I'll do whatever it takes to own one of these cars. The bumper sticker on my roommate's Prius goes... "Hey, cool Prius!" -Nobody
pkulak 10y ago
I loved my Prius until I traded it in for a Leaf 4 years ago. I'll likely never again buy a car without a plug, so yeah, I'm pretty much done with Toyota, considering the new Prius Prime does nothing for me. The Bolt and Model 3 are only going to make things worse for Toyota.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> The type of customer who would have bought a Prius in 2002, has moved on to EV's and PHEV's, and Toyota doesn't appear to be selling those yet Toyota has been selling a PHEV model in the Prius line for sometime, and is replacing that model in the 2017 model year with the new Prius Prime, which is also a PHEV. > Cheap Gasoline hasn't stopped Tesla from racking up multi-year-long waiting lists for the Model 3. Having fairly small production numbers per year helps with racking up a multi-year-long waiting list -- the Model 3 waiting list is less than a year and half of combined sales of the Prius models in the US.
- maxsilver 10y ago
  > Toyota has been selling a PHEV model in the Prius line for sometime Your right. I forgot that technically there is an existing "Plug-in" Prius. However: - it has an EPA-rated an all-electric range of just 6 miles - it has no way to actually lock in a pure electric mode - is limited to 62mph in pure-electric mode according to http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104921_2017-toyota-prius-prime-first-drive-of-new-plug-in-hybrid http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104921_2017-toyota-priu... . And Prius is the "weakest plug-in offering on the market", according to http://insideevs.com/plug-in-prius-setting-the-record-straight/ http://insideevs.com/plug-in-prius-setting-the-record-straig... . Which is basically a repeat of my argument above. Prius seems to be selling poorly primary because it's no longer a competitive product. Other PHEVs have real all-electric modes, that are much faster (80-100mph) and longer range (20-40ish miles), making them more appealing than the Prius to those types of car buyers. Prius Prime may change that. But it's not out yet -- people can't buy that yet. And in the meantime, this market can buy LEAFs, Volt's, CMAX Energi's, and other competitors today.

mikeash 10y ago

Tesla's cars are awesome in just about every respect besides price. The Model 3 promises to preserve the awesomeness without the price tag. People want them, and it rarely has anything to do with saving money on gas. Priuses are kind of boring. (I owned one for a while so I hope I'm not too clueless on this.) They work, they're reliable, they're cheap to run, but few people come back from a Prius test drive thinking, holy shit, I'll do whatever it takes to own one of these cars. Nobody warns prospective Prius buyers, "don't test drive one unless you're ready to put down a bunch of money to buy it, because you will want to." If I had to buy a non-EV car again, I'd probably look at Priuses because efficiency pleases me, Toyota has a good reputation, and their stuff is pretty reliable, but it's not particularly compelling. For a lot of people, saving money on gas is the main reason to even consider a Prius. It's not even in most people's top 10 for a Model 3. Note that with a whopping 22 miles of electric range, the Prius Prime is far from a Model 3 competitor. Toyota seems to be betting on hydrogen rather than batteries, for reasons I've yet to comprehend, so I'd say their Model 3 competitor is the Mirai. Although I don't know why anyone would ever buy a Mirai.

maxsilver 10y ago
> Toyota seems to be betting on hydrogen rather than batteries, for reasons I've yet to comprehend I suspect this will go down in history as a major misstep. Especially given Toyota's experience / expertise in the space.
enraged_camel 10y ago
>>Priuses are kind of boring. (I owned one for a while so I hope I'm not too clueless on this.) They work, they're reliable, they're cheap to run, but few people come back from a Prius test drive thinking, holy shit, I'll do whatever it takes to own one of these cars. The bumper sticker on my roommate's Prius goes... "Hey, cool Prius!" -Nobody

pkulak 10y ago

I loved my Prius until I traded it in for a Leaf 4 years ago. I'll likely never again buy a car without a plug, so yeah, I'm pretty much done with Toyota, considering the new Prius Prime does nothing for me. The Bolt and Model 3 are only going to make things worse for Toyota.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> The type of customer who would have bought a Prius in 2002, has moved on to EV's and PHEV's, and Toyota doesn't appear to be selling those yet Toyota has been selling a PHEV model in the Prius line for sometime, and is replacing that model in the 2017 model year with the new Prius Prime, which is also a PHEV. > Cheap Gasoline hasn't stopped Tesla from racking up multi-year-long waiting lists for the Model 3. Having fairly small production numbers per year helps with racking up a multi-year-long waiting list -- the Model 3 waiting list is less than a year and half of combined sales of the Prius models in the US.

maxsilver 10y ago
> Toyota has been selling a PHEV model in the Prius line for sometime Your right. I forgot that technically there is an existing "Plug-in" Prius. However: - it has an EPA-rated an all-electric range of just 6 miles - it has no way to actually lock in a pure electric mode - is limited to 62mph in pure-electric mode according to http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104921_2017-toyota-prius-prime-first-drive-of-new-plug-in-hybrid http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104921_2017-toyota-priu... . And Prius is the "weakest plug-in offering on the market", according to http://insideevs.com/plug-in-prius-setting-the-record-straight/ http://insideevs.com/plug-in-prius-setting-the-record-straig... . Which is basically a repeat of my argument above. Prius seems to be selling poorly primary because it's no longer a competitive product. Other PHEVs have real all-electric modes, that are much faster (80-100mph) and longer range (20-40ish miles), making them more appealing than the Prius to those types of car buyers. Prius Prime may change that. But it's not out yet -- people can't buy that yet. And in the meantime, this market can buy LEAFs, Volt's, CMAX Energi's, and other competitors today.