4 ms·

What is interesting here are the trade offs. This battery has tech has a larger size, making it infeasible for consumer electronics. But it promises better sa

What is interesting here are the trade offs. This battery has tech has a larger size, making it infeasible for consumer electronics. But it promises better safety, less cost and more cycles. It has a long way to go from lab to the marketplace. But if it gets there, it could be a game-changer for home solar and wind applications.

Shivetya 10y ago
I am still not sold on the idea of individual home storage and barely sold on individual solar. With many new subdivisions having set aside space for run off and green space its not hard to imagine the panel space and storage. besides easier maintenance and better costs it makes is simpler to design homes to fit the needs of those buying them. Plus most homes are not situated ideally for roof solar. In many cases you could simply extend the area used for pools, tennis courts, and such. For the most part I think it is just ideally targeted marketing more than good energy sense to load up each home with panels.
- mikeash 10y ago
  I think home storage probably makes no sense as long as the grid works well. No matter how cheap storage gets, it'll always be cheaper to send power to something that needs it right away, if there is such a something. The grid needs dispatchable power or storage for times when there isn't such a something, but less than if every user was their own little island. Combine that with economies of scale and the grid should be able to do storage much more cheaply. Home solar probably makes sense (or will soon) because economies of scale don't affect it as much and a lot of the power being produced can be consumed right there. The one wrinkle being the assumption that "the grid works well." It doesn't always. If the grid is saddled with a bad price structure or poor reliability then the equation changes considerably. I suspect that a solar+batteries combo will be really popular in certain third-world countries where grid power sucks.
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    I think home storage probably makes no sense as long as the grid works well. No matter how cheap storage gets, it'll always be cheaper to send power to something that needs it right away, if there is such a something You're also perhaps assuming that this infrastructure exists. Right now, most US home connections to the power grid can't transmit power outside of their own subdivision. You did say if "the grid works well." You could say that includes, "works at all between you and relevant points."
    - mikeash 10y ago
      I probably was assuming that. What about the grid makes it so you can't have transfer power outside a subdivision? I thought this stuff would just automatically be two-way, but I'm far from an expert and would certainly like to know better!
      - stcredzero 10y ago
        There has to be infrastructure to regulate (in the engineering sense) power distribution. Right now, this only exists going from centralized plants out to homes. (Industries which produce electricity as a side effect often have to pay for this infrastructure.)
- maxerickson 10y ago
  There's hundreds of thousands of homes that are already built. Around here, 90% of homes are built with the largest piece of roof facing South (city is a grid with lots being longer on the East-West dimension). In most areas it doesn't make a lot of sense to retrofit at current prices, but it's getting pretty close. I also think there will be a huge tipping point if/when the cost of solar gets low enough that installing it to run air conditioning pays off in a modest number of years.
  - mark-r 10y ago
    In my neighborhood, finished in 2000, houses with identical floorplans were required to have external differences that would keep them from looking cookie-cutter. One of those differences was in the rooflines. My own roof is narrowed at the top, reducing the amount of space available for panels. A neighbor just installed roof panels a month ago, the first I've seen in this Minnesota city. Their roof is much more rectangular than mine.

Shivetya 10y ago

I am still not sold on the idea of individual home storage and barely sold on individual solar. With many new subdivisions having set aside space for run off and green space its not hard to imagine the panel space and storage. besides easier maintenance and better costs it makes is simpler to design homes to fit the needs of those buying them. Plus most homes are not situated ideally for roof solar. In many cases you could simply extend the area used for pools, tennis courts, and such. For the most part I think it is just ideally targeted marketing more than good energy sense to load up each home with panels.

mikeash 10y ago
I think home storage probably makes no sense as long as the grid works well. No matter how cheap storage gets, it'll always be cheaper to send power to something that needs it right away, if there is such a something. The grid needs dispatchable power or storage for times when there isn't such a something, but less than if every user was their own little island. Combine that with economies of scale and the grid should be able to do storage much more cheaply. Home solar probably makes sense (or will soon) because economies of scale don't affect it as much and a lot of the power being produced can be consumed right there. The one wrinkle being the assumption that "the grid works well." It doesn't always. If the grid is saddled with a bad price structure or poor reliability then the equation changes considerably. I suspect that a solar+batteries combo will be really popular in certain third-world countries where grid power sucks.
- stcredzero 10y ago
  I think home storage probably makes no sense as long as the grid works well. No matter how cheap storage gets, it'll always be cheaper to send power to something that needs it right away, if there is such a something You're also perhaps assuming that this infrastructure exists. Right now, most US home connections to the power grid can't transmit power outside of their own subdivision. You did say if "the grid works well." You could say that includes, "works at all between you and relevant points."
  - mikeash 10y ago
    I probably was assuming that. What about the grid makes it so you can't have transfer power outside a subdivision? I thought this stuff would just automatically be two-way, but I'm far from an expert and would certainly like to know better!
    - stcredzero 10y ago
      There has to be infrastructure to regulate (in the engineering sense) power distribution. Right now, this only exists going from centralized plants out to homes. (Industries which produce electricity as a side effect often have to pay for this infrastructure.)
maxerickson 10y ago
There's hundreds of thousands of homes that are already built. Around here, 90% of homes are built with the largest piece of roof facing South (city is a grid with lots being longer on the East-West dimension). In most areas it doesn't make a lot of sense to retrofit at current prices, but it's getting pretty close. I also think there will be a huge tipping point if/when the cost of solar gets low enough that installing it to run air conditioning pays off in a modest number of years.
- mark-r 10y ago
  In my neighborhood, finished in 2000, houses with identical floorplans were required to have external differences that would keep them from looking cookie-cutter. One of those differences was in the rooflines. My own roof is narrowed at the top, reducing the amount of space available for panels. A neighbor just installed roof panels a month ago, the first I've seen in this Minnesota city. Their roof is much more rectangular than mine.