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I have a feeling that this is all related to the entry of women into the workplace. Don't get me wrong; patriarchy is oppression and it has to go- but I think

I have a feeling that this is all related to the entry of women into the workplace. Don't get me wrong; patriarchy is oppression and it has to go- but I think there were a lot of jobs being done by women which are now being done by nobody, and among those are the jobs of maintaining social cohesion and networking and so forth, which are a lot easier to do if you and your friends are somewhere other than at work at the same time. But if you and your neighbors are not consistently at home and have free time at the same time, how would you get to know them? Also, if the jobs of doing housework and cooking now has to be done after work hours, when is there time to join a bowling league? We are all in debt up to the eyeballs and working too much - the loss of social cohesion is hardly surprising. I mean, patriarchy is a system that has been in place for literally thousands of years, until this generation. And we have nothing to replace it with. What really should be happening is that a) in households with two working people, the total combined hours worked by both should not exceed 40 hours and b) there should be some consistency to when those hours are, so that you and your friends can be home at the same time. If that doesn't happen, then we are going to start looking like Japan - sky high suicide rate, plunging birth rate.. Again, I'm not arguing that sexism or patriarchy was ever a good thing, I'm just saying that our current system of labor might not be sustainable now that it's going away.

Practicality 10y ago
I generally agree and would say the root cause is that we are individually poorer and this is forcing both members of a partnership into the workforce to make up the difference. If women worked and men all stayed home, did chores and social networking we would not be lonely again. I don't think it has much to do with gender so much as "we have less free time." It just shows up as women working, but I don't think women working is the cause, merely a symptom.
- fallingfrog 10y ago
  Ah, but what if the fact that we are individually poorer mostly derives from supply and demand - in other words, if labor is more abundant, then the price paid by an employer for labor goes down? In that case it is plausible that the entry of women into the workplace could be part of what's causing the drop in wages as well. And in that case it's a self reinforcing feedback loop, since if everyone else has two people working then you have to do that too, just to maintain stable wages.
fragola 10y ago
Except for the fact that Japan actually has a very low rate of workplace participation for women, I agree with your comment. Feminists actually talk about this a lot, using the term "emotional labor"[0] It is a bit like how the decline of religiosity in the US has led to a decline in social participation. It's clear to me, at least, that whatever your opinion on these institutions (religion, patriarchy) there needs to be a movement to fix the void in civil society created by their decline. I think about when I visited the Middle East and how I would often see men on "friend dates", i.e. having a coffee together or relaxing in the park. They would often be sitting close, even holding hands. It made me think about the strange distance men in the US have from each other and how lonely it is. [0]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/08/women-gender-roles-sexism-emotional-labor-feminism https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/08/women-gender-r...
- aoiao 10y ago
  Maybe it's just better to go on a date with someone you can see.
pmyjavec 10y ago
To be honest if the solution is that women or men need to stay at home, maybe the whole of western society just needs a rethink. I've been a stay at home partner (male) for a few months and it's pretty lonely to be honest. On the other hand, travel to somewhere like South East Asia and I didn't seem to notice any kind of loneliness epidemic. Families live closer together and people seem to form small communities where they share things and help each other in other ways. While the basis for my argument is anecdotal, it's a very different place in which people seemed to have much richer social lives.
elementalest 10y ago
I wonder if it is also partially due to family structure in many western societies. Around mid twenties, it is generally expected to have a job and have moved out. Many move away from family and friends due to work/university. Or just live far enough away (but in the same city) that it makes it harder to have regular contact. Combined with the later average marriage age (from low twenties 40-50 years ago, now to late twenties to early 30's), as well as overwork/poor work life balance, people don't have the time/energy or even the means to socialise as much and create meaningful connections to others.

Practicality 10y ago

I generally agree and would say the root cause is that we are individually poorer and this is forcing both members of a partnership into the workforce to make up the difference. If women worked and men all stayed home, did chores and social networking we would not be lonely again. I don't think it has much to do with gender so much as "we have less free time." It just shows up as women working, but I don't think women working is the cause, merely a symptom.

fallingfrog 10y ago
Ah, but what if the fact that we are individually poorer mostly derives from supply and demand - in other words, if labor is more abundant, then the price paid by an employer for labor goes down? In that case it is plausible that the entry of women into the workplace could be part of what's causing the drop in wages as well. And in that case it's a self reinforcing feedback loop, since if everyone else has two people working then you have to do that too, just to maintain stable wages.

fragola 10y ago

Except for the fact that Japan actually has a very low rate of workplace participation for women, I agree with your comment. Feminists actually talk about this a lot, using the term "emotional labor"[0] It is a bit like how the decline of religiosity in the US has led to a decline in social participation. It's clear to me, at least, that whatever your opinion on these institutions (religion, patriarchy) there needs to be a movement to fix the void in civil society created by their decline. I think about when I visited the Middle East and how I would often see men on "friend dates", i.e. having a coffee together or relaxing in the park. They would often be sitting close, even holding hands. It made me think about the strange distance men in the US have from each other and how lonely it is. [0]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/08/women-gender-roles-sexism-emotional-labor-feminism https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/08/women-gender-r...

aoiao 10y ago
Maybe it's just better to go on a date with someone you can see.

pmyjavec 10y ago

To be honest if the solution is that women or men need to stay at home, maybe the whole of western society just needs a rethink. I've been a stay at home partner (male) for a few months and it's pretty lonely to be honest. On the other hand, travel to somewhere like South East Asia and I didn't seem to notice any kind of loneliness epidemic. Families live closer together and people seem to form small communities where they share things and help each other in other ways. While the basis for my argument is anecdotal, it's a very different place in which people seemed to have much richer social lives.

elementalest 10y ago

I wonder if it is also partially due to family structure in many western societies. Around mid twenties, it is generally expected to have a job and have moved out. Many move away from family and friends due to work/university. Or just live far enough away (but in the same city) that it makes it harder to have regular contact. Combined with the later average marriage age (from low twenties 40-50 years ago, now to late twenties to early 30's), as well as overwork/poor work life balance, people don't have the time/energy or even the means to socialise as much and create meaningful connections to others.