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Leaked Catalog Reveals a Vast Array of Military Spy Gear Offered to U.S. Police

maxxxxx 10y ago
US police definitely has to stop seeing itself as another form of military. Here in LA I see billboard ads for police recruitment with some super fit people and words like "Courage" and others. Pretty much the same style as the Marines ads. They never mention "Service" or "Peace". Seems they want to attract wannabe soldiers.
- ntaenta 10y ago
  Or even worse, PTSD-stricken former soldiers who have returned from the wars and are now handed back their old equipment.
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  >Seems they want to attract wannabe soldiers. As opposed to what? I mean, I like the idea of marketing to a peacenik, community minded, compassionate, etc person, but those are the least likely people to get a tough and sometimes shitty job where your life is on the line and you deal with humanity's worst people often at their worst. The types you are talking about would fall into social and charitable work. Personally, I wouldn't last a day as a cop. A lot of that "honor" marketing is to attract the kinds of people who would work those jobs. These strategies work on low educated types or types who are comfortable with shooting, fighting, etc or types who just want well paid public-sector pension jobs and will deal with it. That said, of course there are lots of good cops out there who don't necessarily buy into the macho stuff, but at the end of the day, you better be prepared to do violence. How comfortable would a liberal guy who never had been in a fight be as a cop? Or a 100lbs woman? Or someone who locks up under pressure? Or someone who is a bookworm and has zero physical skills? You can't just wish for society's finest to take a job that you and I would never do. I don't see you quitting your cush white collar job to reform the police department.
  - gaius 10y ago
    Commander William Adama: There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.
    - maxxxxx 10y ago
      Well stated. Military or police require different mindsets that shouldn't be confused. Police shouldn't act like an occupying force.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- awqrre 10y ago
  I agree with you but it could also get much worst... for example if Soros' plan to federalize US police[1] becomes a reality, I think that it would get worst. But at least, Obama banned some military equipment sales to police[2]. I think that citizens should be allowed to own whatever police officers are allowed to use without warrants. 1. http://www.anonews.co/soros-leaked-memo/ http://www.anonews.co/soros-leaked-memo/ 2. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/05/18/obama-police-military-equipment-sales-new-jersey/27521793/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/05/18/obama...
  - kombucha2 10y ago
    >Soros' plan to federalize US police Oh wow, what a bad a idea, maybe just more oversight is the answer, certainly federalization can't be the best answer?
    - whamlastxmas 10y ago
      I don't think it's so bad on the surface. Problems with policing is overwhelmingly due to lack of accountability on such local levels. Federalization would add a ton of uniformity and oversight that doesn't exist today.
  - sammydavis 10y ago
    I don't think either of those documents says that Soros wants to federalize US police. Soros is a progressive, and progressives want to limit the power of police, and limit the militarization of police forces. I believe Soros is on board with both of those things. If I sent a letter to the secretary of state or my own representatives in govt asking for something, like say changing our govts investigation about Syria, you could claim that I somehow influenced the govt. Of course Soros is really rich and could convince people to do things. But HRC is really rich too.
    - awqrre 10y ago
      With his "letter", he also sent millions of dollars to Hillary Clinton's campaign... but I get your point (ie: of course you don't necessarily need money to influence)
GVIrish 10y ago
This is extremely dangerous tech in the hands of any law enforcement or government agency. We've already seen multiple cases of police in the US destroying video evidence, disabling dashcams, and deleting videos from people's cell phones. Given the ability to jam people's cellular signal it's all but certain it will be misused to cover up wrongdoing. Technology like this will also undoubtedly be used to disrupt and harass activists and protesters. And really, what risk is there for law enforcement in using this stuff? If they get caught, maybe a few cases get thrown out but as it stands no one is likely to go to jail for illegal surveillance.
ArtDev 10y ago
This is the catalog referenced in the article: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3038285/2014-Cobham-TCS-Catalog.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3038285/2014-Cobh...
JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Lots of dangerous stuff here. But the camera systems are mostly available on the internet already? Except they've painted it all black. Anybody can make a dyi surveillance kit just shopping on Amazon.
roflchoppa 10y ago
I just think that's it's nuts how law enforcement can mess with radio waves(jamming), but if I did it I would have fines/jail time. BONKERS.
- justinpombrio 10y ago
  Serious follow up question: what part of the legal code allows this? Are there exceptions written into laws for the police? Or is that it's illegal but would never be prosecuted?
  - roflchoppa 10y ago
    dude i have no clue, ill ask my friend in law school and see if she knows anything about it.. perhaps its because they are working as agents of the state, which allows them to break the rules for some odd reason / state wont prosecute them for it.
  - brassic 10y ago
    Here in the UK there are exceptions written into the law. For example, here's the speed limit exception [0]. If the government want to give the police new powers contrary to existing laws they will pass a bill making amendments to the old laws. [0]: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/87 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/87
Shivetya 10y ago
think that is bad, check out Baltimore's "pre search" system that was detailed over at CATO http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/pre-search-coming-us-policing http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/pre-search-comin... Face it, without specific laws blocking the use of military grade hardware by the police we will end up with a police state. First came over militarization of SWAT teams to the same with nearly all police. They even have tracked military vehicles in some jurisdiction as well as military transports never designed for road use (one of my neighboring counties has a tank and was ridiculed over it after someone put a training video to death metal; search for Doraville tank)
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  I find the focus on "military grade hardware" to be a red herring in the police conduct issue. In many cases, the hardware being discussed (tracked vehicles? okay, I guess they're good in mud?) have nothing to do with offensive capabilities, and are quite often defensive. (Armored vehicles). If anything, the better defended our cops are, the less excuse they have to use lethal force. If a cop knew his life was never in danger, he would have almost no reason to use lethal force. In many cases, this hardware's already built, it's built to survive a lot tougher duty than the police put it through, and it makes no sense to me why they wouldn't use it.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    A really good reason not to use them is that they are expensive to maintain and operate and they don't really need them.
    - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
      And that is an absolutely fair point. Police departments will need to evaluate the cost/benefit of any equipment they use. (And damage that equipment can cause to roadways also factors in as well.)
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago
Anyone live in a country where the military is the police? I think it's a really bad idea, and Allende probably agrees.
- spacemanmatt 10y ago
  So may Aristide.
TaylorAlexander 10y ago
"For geo-locating and tracking purposes the UMTS target phone is 'pushed' onto the GSM-XPZ cell and then placed into blind call mode." [1] Oh, yeah, of course blind call mode.... wait, what? Does anyone have more information on "blind call mode"? It sounds like a standard feature of some devices, perhaps where the phone actively transmits as if in a call, but without the user knowing. I definitely don't want a device that will help someone spy on me... Also it's great that people are beginning to question the values of law enforcement, but don't forget too that good old fashioned criminals will have this tech too. Sometimes, the two will be the same entity. [1] https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2016/08/Screen-Shot-2016-08-30-at-12.04.19-PM.png https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/20...
- ju-st 10y ago
  Page 7: https://info.publicintelligence.net/Gamma-GSM.pdf https://info.publicintelligence.net/Gamma-GSM.pdf
  - Phlarp 10y ago
    I'm not seeing anything on page 7 that details "blind call mode" and only one mention of "blind call mode" in the document-- Do you have any further reading on this?
    - jjp 10y ago
      Page 7 doesn't detail how it works, but does seem to describe what it does. From cell base station creates a connection to a target cell phone without the user of the cell phone being aware. Can then use RF direction finding to identify location of cell phone. Obviously multiple base stations required to be more accurate. More explanation available in this patent application - https://data.epo.org/publication-server/rest/v1.0/publication-dates/20101229/patents/EP1908318NWB1/document.html https://data.epo.org/publication-server/rest/v1.0/publicatio...
jefe_ 10y ago
Apparently SkyMall & Popular Science conditioned me to believe that all hidden cameras are obviously hidden cameras. The realism of the concealments in this document was sort of jarring.
- okwhatthe2 10y ago
  "If the taps are good enough you'll never find them."

US police definitely has to stop seeing itself as another form of military. Here in LA I see billboard ads for police recruitment with some super fit people and words like "Courage" and others. Pretty much the same style as the Marines ads. They never mention "Service" or "Peace". Seems they want to attract wannabe soldiers.

ntaenta 10y ago
Or even worse, PTSD-stricken former soldiers who have returned from the wars and are now handed back their old equipment.
drzaiusapelord 10y ago
>Seems they want to attract wannabe soldiers. As opposed to what? I mean, I like the idea of marketing to a peacenik, community minded, compassionate, etc person, but those are the least likely people to get a tough and sometimes shitty job where your life is on the line and you deal with humanity's worst people often at their worst. The types you are talking about would fall into social and charitable work. Personally, I wouldn't last a day as a cop. A lot of that "honor" marketing is to attract the kinds of people who would work those jobs. These strategies work on low educated types or types who are comfortable with shooting, fighting, etc or types who just want well paid public-sector pension jobs and will deal with it. That said, of course there are lots of good cops out there who don't necessarily buy into the macho stuff, but at the end of the day, you better be prepared to do violence. How comfortable would a liberal guy who never had been in a fight be as a cop? Or a 100lbs woman? Or someone who locks up under pressure? Or someone who is a bookworm and has zero physical skills? You can't just wish for society's finest to take a job that you and I would never do. I don't see you quitting your cush white collar job to reform the police department.
- gaius 10y ago
  Commander William Adama: There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    Well stated. Military or police require different mindsets that shouldn't be confused. Police shouldn't act like an occupying force.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
awqrre 10y ago
I agree with you but it could also get much worst... for example if Soros' plan to federalize US police[1] becomes a reality, I think that it would get worst. But at least, Obama banned some military equipment sales to police[2]. I think that citizens should be allowed to own whatever police officers are allowed to use without warrants. 1. http://www.anonews.co/soros-leaked-memo/ http://www.anonews.co/soros-leaked-memo/ 2. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/05/18/obama-police-military-equipment-sales-new-jersey/27521793/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/05/18/obama...
- kombucha2 10y ago
  >Soros' plan to federalize US police Oh wow, what a bad a idea, maybe just more oversight is the answer, certainly federalization can't be the best answer?
  - whamlastxmas 10y ago
    I don't think it's so bad on the surface. Problems with policing is overwhelmingly due to lack of accountability on such local levels. Federalization would add a ton of uniformity and oversight that doesn't exist today.
- sammydavis 10y ago
  I don't think either of those documents says that Soros wants to federalize US police. Soros is a progressive, and progressives want to limit the power of police, and limit the militarization of police forces. I believe Soros is on board with both of those things. If I sent a letter to the secretary of state or my own representatives in govt asking for something, like say changing our govts investigation about Syria, you could claim that I somehow influenced the govt. Of course Soros is really rich and could convince people to do things. But HRC is really rich too.
  - awqrre 10y ago
    With his "letter", he also sent millions of dollars to Hillary Clinton's campaign... but I get your point (ie: of course you don't necessarily need money to influence)

GVIrish 10y ago

This is extremely dangerous tech in the hands of any law enforcement or government agency. We've already seen multiple cases of police in the US destroying video evidence, disabling dashcams, and deleting videos from people's cell phones. Given the ability to jam people's cellular signal it's all but certain it will be misused to cover up wrongdoing. Technology like this will also undoubtedly be used to disrupt and harass activists and protesters. And really, what risk is there for law enforcement in using this stuff? If they get caught, maybe a few cases get thrown out but as it stands no one is likely to go to jail for illegal surveillance.

ArtDev 10y ago

This is the catalog referenced in the article: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3038285/2014-Cobham-TCS-Catalog.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3038285/2014-Cobh...

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

Lots of dangerous stuff here. But the camera systems are mostly available on the internet already? Except they've painted it all black. Anybody can make a dyi surveillance kit just shopping on Amazon.

roflchoppa 10y ago

I just think that's it's nuts how law enforcement can mess with radio waves(jamming), but if I did it I would have fines/jail time. BONKERS.

justinpombrio 10y ago
Serious follow up question: what part of the legal code allows this? Are there exceptions written into laws for the police? Or is that it's illegal but would never be prosecuted?
- roflchoppa 10y ago
  dude i have no clue, ill ask my friend in law school and see if she knows anything about it.. perhaps its because they are working as agents of the state, which allows them to break the rules for some odd reason / state wont prosecute them for it.
- brassic 10y ago
  Here in the UK there are exceptions written into the law. For example, here's the speed limit exception [0]. If the government want to give the police new powers contrary to existing laws they will pass a bill making amendments to the old laws. [0]: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/87 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/87

Shivetya 10y ago

think that is bad, check out Baltimore's "pre search" system that was detailed over at CATO http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/pre-search-coming-us-policing http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/pre-search-comin... Face it, without specific laws blocking the use of military grade hardware by the police we will end up with a police state. First came over militarization of SWAT teams to the same with nearly all police. They even have tracked military vehicles in some jurisdiction as well as military transports never designed for road use (one of my neighboring counties has a tank and was ridiculed over it after someone put a training video to death metal; search for Doraville tank)

ocdtrekkie 10y ago
I find the focus on "military grade hardware" to be a red herring in the police conduct issue. In many cases, the hardware being discussed (tracked vehicles? okay, I guess they're good in mud?) have nothing to do with offensive capabilities, and are quite often defensive. (Armored vehicles). If anything, the better defended our cops are, the less excuse they have to use lethal force. If a cop knew his life was never in danger, he would have almost no reason to use lethal force. In many cases, this hardware's already built, it's built to survive a lot tougher duty than the police put it through, and it makes no sense to me why they wouldn't use it.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  A really good reason not to use them is that they are expensive to maintain and operate and they don't really need them.
  - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
    And that is an absolutely fair point. Police departments will need to evaluate the cost/benefit of any equipment they use. (And damage that equipment can cause to roadways also factors in as well.)
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago

Anyone live in a country where the military is the police? I think it's a really bad idea, and Allende probably agrees.

spacemanmatt 10y ago
So may Aristide.

TaylorAlexander 10y ago

"For geo-locating and tracking purposes the UMTS target phone is 'pushed' onto the GSM-XPZ cell and then placed into blind call mode." [1] Oh, yeah, of course blind call mode.... wait, what? Does anyone have more information on "blind call mode"? It sounds like a standard feature of some devices, perhaps where the phone actively transmits as if in a call, but without the user knowing. I definitely don't want a device that will help someone spy on me... Also it's great that people are beginning to question the values of law enforcement, but don't forget too that good old fashioned criminals will have this tech too. Sometimes, the two will be the same entity. [1] https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2016/08/Screen-Shot-2016-08-30-at-12.04.19-PM.png https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/20...

ju-st 10y ago
Page 7: https://info.publicintelligence.net/Gamma-GSM.pdf https://info.publicintelligence.net/Gamma-GSM.pdf
- Phlarp 10y ago
  I'm not seeing anything on page 7 that details "blind call mode" and only one mention of "blind call mode" in the document-- Do you have any further reading on this?
  - jjp 10y ago
    Page 7 doesn't detail how it works, but does seem to describe what it does. From cell base station creates a connection to a target cell phone without the user of the cell phone being aware. Can then use RF direction finding to identify location of cell phone. Obviously multiple base stations required to be more accurate. More explanation available in this patent application - https://data.epo.org/publication-server/rest/v1.0/publication-dates/20101229/patents/EP1908318NWB1/document.html https://data.epo.org/publication-server/rest/v1.0/publicatio...

jefe_ 10y ago

Apparently SkyMall & Popular Science conditioned me to believe that all hidden cameras are obviously hidden cameras. The realism of the concealments in this document was sort of jarring.

okwhatthe2 10y ago
"If the taps are good enough you'll never find them."