4 ms·

It's also worth keeping in mind the Saganism But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses.

by Lerc 10y ago

It's also worth keeping in mind the Saganism But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. We can see what is currently being laughed at. Bitcoin stands out as a good example. History will decide if they were geniuses or clowns. All we have at the moment are opinions. On the other hand there is a particular form of sneering dismissiveness that I see from a few people that I use as a guide. In the Bitcoin case all the right people were panning it so I grabbed a few for $11 each, that worked out well.

ohashi 10y ago
So you're saying my Beanie Baby investment has a chance?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
whack 10y ago
Sorry to hijack your comment, but Columbus was actually a clown. People in his day already knew that the world was spherical, and that if you traveled west long enough, you would get to India. However, their (accurate) calculations showed that the distance you would have to travel in order to get to India from the west, were so long, that such an expedition was bound to fail. Columbus on the other hand, came up with his own calculations showing that the distance needed to get to India was actually manageable and that he could do it. His calculations were a joke, and off by an order of magnitude. Luckily for him, there happened to be an entirely unanticipated continent in between Europe and Asia, which he was able to land on. If not for that fortuitous stroke of luck, Columbus would have died on his expedition as a nobody, exactly as everyone has predicted.
- grosbisou 10y ago
  He acted on what he believed. That fact doesn't make him a clown to me. The dude sailed boats in the unknown to give humanity new horizons. Who cares if he was wrong at the start.
  - yardie 10y ago
    This is a very Eurocentric view of the new world. Asia had already settled in the Americas by South Pacific Islanders and the north by baring land bridge. And the northeast had Viking settlements. This evidence is new in the same way that Steve jobs invented the point and click GUI
    - jessaustin 10y ago
      If the voyages of the South Pacific Islanders and the Vikings were admirable, then surely so was that of Columbus? It's not as though they had better maps than he did.
      - kesselvon 10y ago
        Columbus's success wasn't based on any of his own maps or projections, he basically stumbled upon success out of sheer luck. This is like winning the lottery and thinking you're a visionary businessman.
    - huherto 10y ago
      It is not who got here first. It is who stayed and changed the world. The (re)discovery of America in 1492 is arguably the most important discovery in history. It changed everything in very deep ways. Europe started looking outwards while Asia stayed looking inwards.
- random_rr 10y ago
  "Columbus was actually a clown" Come on man. He was much less clown-like than many, many, many of his contemporaries. He did something novel and pushed the world forward. Sorry he didn't do it in the manner you would have preferred.
  - bbctol 10y ago
    He was a hell of a lot more clown-like than his contemporaries, who had accurate measurements of the size of the Earth and the length of Eurasia. Columbus didn't trust maps not made by Christians, and refused to believe China wasn't as large as Marco Polo had believed. He did something daring, brave, and incredibly stupid, and got luckier than anyone else in history.
  - triplesec 10y ago
    Columbus was also not a very nice man, to say the least of it: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/10/14/8-myths-and-atrocities-about-christopher-columbus-and-columbus-day-151653 http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/10/14/8-myths...
  - jogjayr 10y ago
    Leaving aside the "Columbus got lucky" argument, he was a woefully incompetent administrator of the Spanish colonies he was put in charge of, in addition to being a tyrant. You have to do something special to fall out of favor within 5 years of discovering the New World. > By [1499], accusations of tyranny and incompetence on the part of Columbus had also reached the Court. Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand responded by removing Columbus from power and replacing him with Francisco de Bobadilla, a member of the Order of Calatrava. Bobadilla, who ruled as governor from 1500 until his death in a storm in 1502, had also been tasked by the Court with investigating the accusations of brutality made against Columbus. Arriving in Santo Domingo while Columbus was away in the explorations of his third voyage, Bobadilla was immediately met with complaints about all three Columbus brothers: Christopher, Bartolomé, and Diego. A recently discovered report by Bobadilla alleges that Columbus regularly used torture and mutilation to govern Hispaniola. The 48-page report, found in 2006 in the state archive in the Spanish city of Valladolid, contains testimonies from 23 people, including both enemies and supporters of Columbus, about the treatment of colonial subjects by Columbus and his brothers during his seven-year rule...Because of their gross mismanagement of governance, Columbus and his brothers were arrested and imprisoned upon their return to Spain from the third voyage. They lingered in jail for six weeks before busy King Ferdinand ordered their release. Not long after, the king and queen summoned the Columbus brothers to the Alhambra palace in Granada. There the royal couple heard the brothers' pleas; restored their freedom and wealth; and, after much persuasion, agreed to fund Columbus's fourth voyage. But the door was firmly shut on Columbus's role as governor. Henceforth Nicolás de Ovando y Cáceres was to be the new governor of the West Indies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus#Accusations_of_tyranny_during_governorship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus#Accusatio...
username3 10y ago
Trump, genius?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
wavefunction 10y ago
I like Sagan but wasn't Bozo's whole raison d'etre to be laughed at? Sounds like a success!
digi_owl 10y ago
Nah, bitcoin has all manner of practical issues. A core element of it is that it closely emulates gold. And gold has been found to be impractical for day to day consumer trades. Even back with the Romans, even while they had gold and silver coins, used copper coins for most of their daily exchanges. Or even just made agreements about paying in produce once the corps were harvested.
kamaal 10y ago
>>But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. Surely people have no clue how hard it is to make people laugh. Humor and entertainment are very creative activities.

by Lerc 10y ago

ohashi 10y ago

So you're saying my Beanie Baby investment has a chance?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

whack 10y ago

Sorry to hijack your comment, but Columbus was actually a clown. People in his day already knew that the world was spherical, and that if you traveled west long enough, you would get to India. However, their (accurate) calculations showed that the distance you would have to travel in order to get to India from the west, were so long, that such an expedition was bound to fail. Columbus on the other hand, came up with his own calculations showing that the distance needed to get to India was actually manageable and that he could do it. His calculations were a joke, and off by an order of magnitude. Luckily for him, there happened to be an entirely unanticipated continent in between Europe and Asia, which he was able to land on. If not for that fortuitous stroke of luck, Columbus would have died on his expedition as a nobody, exactly as everyone has predicted.

grosbisou 10y ago
He acted on what he believed. That fact doesn't make him a clown to me. The dude sailed boats in the unknown to give humanity new horizons. Who cares if he was wrong at the start.
- yardie 10y ago
  This is a very Eurocentric view of the new world. Asia had already settled in the Americas by South Pacific Islanders and the north by baring land bridge. And the northeast had Viking settlements. This evidence is new in the same way that Steve jobs invented the point and click GUI
  - jessaustin 10y ago
    If the voyages of the South Pacific Islanders and the Vikings were admirable, then surely so was that of Columbus? It's not as though they had better maps than he did.
    - kesselvon 10y ago
      Columbus's success wasn't based on any of his own maps or projections, he basically stumbled upon success out of sheer luck. This is like winning the lottery and thinking you're a visionary businessman.
  - huherto 10y ago
    It is not who got here first. It is who stayed and changed the world. The (re)discovery of America in 1492 is arguably the most important discovery in history. It changed everything in very deep ways. Europe started looking outwards while Asia stayed looking inwards.
random_rr 10y ago
"Columbus was actually a clown" Come on man. He was much less clown-like than many, many, many of his contemporaries. He did something novel and pushed the world forward. Sorry he didn't do it in the manner you would have preferred.
- bbctol 10y ago
  He was a hell of a lot more clown-like than his contemporaries, who had accurate measurements of the size of the Earth and the length of Eurasia. Columbus didn't trust maps not made by Christians, and refused to believe China wasn't as large as Marco Polo had believed. He did something daring, brave, and incredibly stupid, and got luckier than anyone else in history.
- triplesec 10y ago
  Columbus was also not a very nice man, to say the least of it: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/10/14/8-myths-and-atrocities-about-christopher-columbus-and-columbus-day-151653 http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/10/14/8-myths...
- jogjayr 10y ago
  Leaving aside the "Columbus got lucky" argument, he was a woefully incompetent administrator of the Spanish colonies he was put in charge of, in addition to being a tyrant. You have to do something special to fall out of favor within 5 years of discovering the New World. > By [1499], accusations of tyranny and incompetence on the part of Columbus had also reached the Court. Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand responded by removing Columbus from power and replacing him with Francisco de Bobadilla, a member of the Order of Calatrava. Bobadilla, who ruled as governor from 1500 until his death in a storm in 1502, had also been tasked by the Court with investigating the accusations of brutality made against Columbus. Arriving in Santo Domingo while Columbus was away in the explorations of his third voyage, Bobadilla was immediately met with complaints about all three Columbus brothers: Christopher, Bartolomé, and Diego. A recently discovered report by Bobadilla alleges that Columbus regularly used torture and mutilation to govern Hispaniola. The 48-page report, found in 2006 in the state archive in the Spanish city of Valladolid, contains testimonies from 23 people, including both enemies and supporters of Columbus, about the treatment of colonial subjects by Columbus and his brothers during his seven-year rule...Because of their gross mismanagement of governance, Columbus and his brothers were arrested and imprisoned upon their return to Spain from the third voyage. They lingered in jail for six weeks before busy King Ferdinand ordered their release. Not long after, the king and queen summoned the Columbus brothers to the Alhambra palace in Granada. There the royal couple heard the brothers' pleas; restored their freedom and wealth; and, after much persuasion, agreed to fund Columbus's fourth voyage. But the door was firmly shut on Columbus's role as governor. Henceforth Nicolás de Ovando y Cáceres was to be the new governor of the West Indies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus#Accusations_of_tyranny_during_governorship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus#Accusatio...

username3 10y ago

Trump, genius?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

wavefunction 10y ago

I like Sagan but wasn't Bozo's whole raison d'etre to be laughed at? Sounds like a success!

digi_owl 10y ago

Nah, bitcoin has all manner of practical issues. A core element of it is that it closely emulates gold. And gold has been found to be impractical for day to day consumer trades. Even back with the Romans, even while they had gold and silver coins, used copper coins for most of their daily exchanges. Or even just made agreements about paying in produce once the corps were harvested.

kamaal 10y ago

>>But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. Surely people have no clue how hard it is to make people laugh. Humor and entertainment are very creative activities.