6 ms·

Show HN: Velo – A wireless bluetooth splitter for 2 traditional headphones

45 points by dawidpacha 10y ago

niftich 10y ago
I love the concept, this feels a useful need that I didn't know I wanted until now -- which, I believe, is the best kind of reaction to a new product. The triangle shape doesn't resonate with me; I think it's really awkward. I propose something like an 'imperial' profile yo-yo (called 'classic' in the image [1]), where the two disc-shaped halves can snap together. [1] http://cdn3.volusion.com/cxlem.jbcmk/v/vspfiles/photos/YO_No_Jive_3_in_1-3.jpg?1363950588 http://cdn3.volusion.com/cxlem.jbcmk/v/vspfiles/photos/YO_No... I think that style of design is recognizable to be snapped together while maintaining separated shape that is not unwieldy to handle and pocket. Not to mention 'velo' sounds like a plausible rhyme for yo-yo and in my opinion, sort of onomatopoeically and etymologically conjures an image of a fast and nimble device like a yo-yo.
- kranner 10y ago
  > The triangle shape doesn't resonate with me; I think it's really awkward. It seems like a matter of time before someone sits on it. It's a great idea though.
- deadringerr 10y ago
  Ooh - I like your yo-yo concept a lot.
- dawidpacha 10y ago
  @niftich I love your input! This is why I know HN would be the best place to consult. Yo-you concept starts to resonate with me :) Thanks a lot.
- PieterH 10y ago
  Yes, being able to listen to the same music while walking together, for example, is really pleasant. I used to do this with my daughter using a simple audio splitter, it's just clumsy. Having extra things to charge and carry and lose is not nice though. It'd be simpler IMO if one phone streamed its music to the second, so that it's a pure software solution. Given we're discussing Velo... the name means "bike" in French. Edit: which is probably fine. For shape and size, why not something flat that can attach to the back of a smartphone? Size and shape of a small stack of credit cards. Give it enough battery life to last 24 hours. If the product works, then build it into protective cases for the main smartphones, maybe working with accessory makers.
  - reacweb 10y ago
    As a french, I am not annoyed by the name "velo". We can see the number 2 almost everywhere in a bike: 2 wheels, 2 pedals, ... There is nothing negative in a bike, it is more associated with romance and freedom. IMHO, velo is a nice name.
  - dawidpacha 10y ago
    @PieterH I agree it would be easier, but we are not living in a free world. Everything is a walled garden. Sharing is pure fantasy. Everything is closed, especially on iOS, but Android is not that much of different. So Velo enables sharing outside these ecosystems. When it comes to the name, I realised Velo has something to do with bikes, after I came up with a name. There is a story behind the name I just posted in this thread.
- reacweb 10y ago
  IMHO, the sharp angles of the triangles are dangerous. But I love the idea of two identical parts that can join. Maybe a strong magnet could be used (to join the 2 parts and also to stick a part on a metallic peace of clothe).
  - reacweb 10y ago
    Another idea of shape (with also sharp angles) is the "Two Piece Pyramid Puzzle" http://gamesmuseum.uwaterloo.ca/VirtualExhibits/puzzles/pyramid/ http://gamesmuseum.uwaterloo.ca/VirtualExhibits/puzzles/pyra...
  - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    Why restrict this to just two? Why not have the whole pizza pie of them? At least I see three could be very useful, e.g. for kids in the backseat if they share a tablet for entertainment on the road. You can of course add >2 support later.
    - dawidpacha 10y ago
      @semi-extrinsic When brainstorming with Netizens R&D team (I took even took a picture: velo.audio/img/IMG_4309.JPG) we were totally talking about a pizza! However, it needs to be tested. It's too early to say, how many devices can we connect to each other without a delay and other potential issues.
      - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
        Sure. If you work out how to run with three users nicely, you can maybe extend to many by making a network topology like a tree that forks off two branches per level; that gets you to 8 users with only 4x the delay of 2 users.
  - Tempest1981 10y ago
    From their website: "I know it's not super sexy, but hey, we are looking for a designer ;)"
rakpol 10y ago
Typo on your "R&D, Netizens" blurb: certyfication -> certification.
- dawidpacha 10y ago
  @rakpol thank you for pointing this out. I've already corrected it.
markbao 10y ago
This is a cool concept, but the triangle idea is more effort than it's worth IMO. Having to have a way to communicate between the two triangles plus having separate batteries for both, not to mention the weirdness of losing one of them, makes the product needlessly more complex. Having one device with two headphone outputs is much easier to build IMO.
- sb23 10y ago
  But then you both need to be in the same spot to use it. I like the idea of being able to sit on opposite sides of a room, or go for a run while using the device.
  - dawidpacha 10y ago
    I'm willing to drop the triangle shape. I'm not that attached to it. However, we need to have two different devices that can be one. Don't worry about loosing them. I've figured that out. We are going to put 2 separate beacons in it. Netizens is the creator of the first beacons working in mesh network (take a look http://eonbeacon.com/ http://eonbeacon.com/), which is good for navigation as well. We are going to have an excellent tracking service within a Velo app, better than Tile.
  - staticvar 10y ago
    Yes! And I want to ride bikes with friends and share audio!
noonespecial 10y ago
OSX can do this already with aggregate sound devices. I'm frankly surprised not to see it in IOS. I just kind of figured it would be there if I ever wanted it. Seems like a product with a market, but it takes guts to develop considering the precedent exists already in OSX and your business is just one little IOS feature-update away from getting hosed. Edit: Yes the world is bigger than the fruit-themed-brand, but generally as goes IOS, so goes Android.
deadringerr 10y ago
I like the concept. I've been interested in the idea of dedicated bluetooth pairing between two little audio connectors for awhile now. Having a bluetooth speaker with two different people who would like to use it, maybe it's just me but I would still prefer to unplug from one headphone jack to the other than have to both mess with our smartphones.
jc4p 10y ago
Don't override my scroll. I didn't even bother reading the page, I _hate_ when people override my scroll speed and make it 10x slower. Let me read the page at my own pace!
- supercoder 10y ago
  I love a bespoke scroll behaviour. Makes the page feel so unique and artisanal. All these cookie cutter websites with the same boring scroll behaviour are just not for me man.
supercoder 10y ago
I always just liked the stereo splitter. No batteries, cheap and it worked, whats the issue.
- kalleboo 10y ago
  Come next year, no phones are going to have headphone jacks anymore
  - dawidpacha 10y ago
    @kalleboo That's what I believe as well. However there is going to be a lot of traditional headphones left on the market.
  - supercoder 10y ago
    Yes they will, they'll just be in the form of lightning & USB-C. So I'll just buy a lightning splitter.
- oxplot 10y ago
  I can think of two: * Connecting an extra unpowered set of headphones will drop the overall impedance and depending on your source (e.g. a smart phone), you may not be able to get a reasonable volume. * Related to above, if you have to turn up the volume too high when using two headphones, you can easily damage your hearing when going back to one without lowering the volume. I have personally been bit by both.
sahaskatta 10y ago
Doesn't this $20 item on Monoprice do the same thing already? https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9722 https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9722
- teraflop 10y ago
  Furthermore: > Ok, so this is all just a concept. But we can turn this idea into a real product in a matter of 2 months. Isn't this an absurdly optimistic timeline for a hardware startup? I notice that both of the project founders are marketers -- were any engineers consulted when coming up with this estimate?
  - dawidpacha 10y ago
    @teraflop Thanks for the comment. I want to clarify. By real product, I don't think mass production. I meant a working prototype with an acceptable design. Velo is an independent venture of mine, but with the full support of Netizens (it's where I work), once I validate the idea. I had consulted it with our R&D department many times along the way in recent weeks before I decided to go public with this concept.
- dawidpacha 10y ago
  @sahaskatta This is one of the available solutions. However, you need to have a jack port. I read Apple is dropping one tomorrow. Also in this case you need to have two Bluetooth headsets. Velo could support Bluetooth headsets, but traditional headphones seemed an easier choice. BTW Monoprice works with up to 2 headsets. We think that we could connect more than two headsets with Velo.
  - PieterH 10y ago
    Using traditional headsets is a great idea. You should also IMO look into a software-only solution, i.e. a music player that streams its output to other smartphones via bluetooth or wifi. Because if your idea takes off, this is IMO what will kill a hardware product. And you might eventually talk to accessory makers to build such capability into cases.
greggman 10y ago
Cool Idea. I know I'm not the core user but ... I carry a standard audio splitter in my backpack. I think I've used it 3 times in 9 years. I know you're solving the issue for bluetooth and the future of digital headphones but are you sure there's a market? Not saying their isn't. Only that splitters are cheap and yet I don't think they're that popular. Maybe your product will change that?
Roritharr 10y ago
My Main usecase for this is movie nights. We have very sensitive neighbors and watching movies, especially ones with explosions and gunfire in them past 10pm makes them angry beyond belief, so being able to finish a movie with ~4-5 Headphones that I have stored for this purpose would make inviting friends over so much easier.
duckqlz 10y ago
I am interested in which audio codec will be used considering most powered analog splitters rarely work =P. With that said I'll be one of the first to buy once it is up since this would solve a minor inconvenience issue for me :+1:
voltagex_ 10y ago
I'm worried about the cost of adding the APT-X codec and/or a decent bluetooth chipset. FWIW, devices with real CSR chips have given me a lot less trouble than the knockoffs. And, although triangles are my favourite shape [1], I think two half-circles would be kinda cool, and probably fit better in my pocket. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPH89HIBLiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPH89HIBLiw (possibly NSFW?)
snovv_crash 10y ago
Just a heads up, 'Velo' means bicycle in French.
b3lvedere 10y ago
Very nice concept. Would it be technically possible to connect more than 2, say 4 or 8, to the same audio bluetooth audio source as well? Then maybe it could be possible to connect and disconnect these devices sort of like lego bricks. Each with their own audio jack, bluetooth and battery.
dawidpacha 10y ago
@everyone At the beginning, I was inspired by my new girlfriend, who is active and we like running together or play other sports ;) Like @reacweb says - it was about romance and freedom. So originally the product was supposed to be called just LOVE and be in the shape of the heart. I thought since Instagram is using heart instead of like, so what's the problem? I was stopped by my friends, who said it was not wise. Only girls would buy it. Just as a proof, I'm attaching first render we made: http://velo.audio/img/Velo-heart.png http://velo.audio/img/Velo-heart.png BTW VELO comes from VE and LO, which are just two syllables from LOVE but in a different order. It means that you can split the product and do whatever you want with this since you have freedom :)
oxplot 10y ago
The only way I know how this could work is if the two devices share, in realtime, the various parameters and timing information related to the active bluetooth stream (e.g. hopping to the same channel at the same exact time) since they won't be able to get any help from the transmitter (e.g. phone). If that's how it'll work, then it should be easy to have 10 of them receiving the same stream since one can be the master and configure every other one in its radio range.
jpl56 10y ago
why not "yin and yang" shapes rather than triangles?

45 points by dawidpacha 10y ago

I love the concept, this feels a useful need that I didn't know I wanted until now -- which, I believe, is the best kind of reaction to a new product. The triangle shape doesn't resonate with me; I think it's really awkward. I propose something like an 'imperial' profile yo-yo (called 'classic' in the image [1]), where the two disc-shaped halves can snap together. [1] http://cdn3.volusion.com/cxlem.jbcmk/v/vspfiles/photos/YO_No_Jive_3_in_1-3.jpg?1363950588 http://cdn3.volusion.com/cxlem.jbcmk/v/vspfiles/photos/YO_No... I think that style of design is recognizable to be snapped together while maintaining separated shape that is not unwieldy to handle and pocket. Not to mention 'velo' sounds like a plausible rhyme for yo-yo and in my opinion, sort of onomatopoeically and etymologically conjures an image of a fast and nimble device like a yo-yo.

kranner 10y ago
> The triangle shape doesn't resonate with me; I think it's really awkward. It seems like a matter of time before someone sits on it. It's a great idea though.
deadringerr 10y ago
Ooh - I like your yo-yo concept a lot.
dawidpacha 10y ago
@niftich I love your input! This is why I know HN would be the best place to consult. Yo-you concept starts to resonate with me :) Thanks a lot.
PieterH 10y ago
Yes, being able to listen to the same music while walking together, for example, is really pleasant. I used to do this with my daughter using a simple audio splitter, it's just clumsy. Having extra things to charge and carry and lose is not nice though. It'd be simpler IMO if one phone streamed its music to the second, so that it's a pure software solution. Given we're discussing Velo... the name means "bike" in French. Edit: which is probably fine. For shape and size, why not something flat that can attach to the back of a smartphone? Size and shape of a small stack of credit cards. Give it enough battery life to last 24 hours. If the product works, then build it into protective cases for the main smartphones, maybe working with accessory makers.
- reacweb 10y ago
  As a french, I am not annoyed by the name "velo". We can see the number 2 almost everywhere in a bike: 2 wheels, 2 pedals, ... There is nothing negative in a bike, it is more associated with romance and freedom. IMHO, velo is a nice name.
- dawidpacha 10y ago
  @PieterH I agree it would be easier, but we are not living in a free world. Everything is a walled garden. Sharing is pure fantasy. Everything is closed, especially on iOS, but Android is not that much of different. So Velo enables sharing outside these ecosystems. When it comes to the name, I realised Velo has something to do with bikes, after I came up with a name. There is a story behind the name I just posted in this thread.
reacweb 10y ago
IMHO, the sharp angles of the triangles are dangerous. But I love the idea of two identical parts that can join. Maybe a strong magnet could be used (to join the 2 parts and also to stick a part on a metallic peace of clothe).
- reacweb 10y ago
  Another idea of shape (with also sharp angles) is the "Two Piece Pyramid Puzzle" http://gamesmuseum.uwaterloo.ca/VirtualExhibits/puzzles/pyramid/ http://gamesmuseum.uwaterloo.ca/VirtualExhibits/puzzles/pyra...
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  Why restrict this to just two? Why not have the whole pizza pie of them? At least I see three could be very useful, e.g. for kids in the backseat if they share a tablet for entertainment on the road. You can of course add >2 support later.
  - dawidpacha 10y ago
    @semi-extrinsic When brainstorming with Netizens R&D team (I took even took a picture: velo.audio/img/IMG_4309.JPG) we were totally talking about a pizza! However, it needs to be tested. It's too early to say, how many devices can we connect to each other without a delay and other potential issues.
    - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
      Sure. If you work out how to run with three users nicely, you can maybe extend to many by making a network topology like a tree that forks off two branches per level; that gets you to 8 users with only 4x the delay of 2 users.
- Tempest1981 10y ago
  From their website: "I know it's not super sexy, but hey, we are looking for a designer ;)"

rakpol 10y ago

Typo on your "R&D, Netizens" blurb: certyfication -> certification.

dawidpacha 10y ago
@rakpol thank you for pointing this out. I've already corrected it.

markbao 10y ago

This is a cool concept, but the triangle idea is more effort than it's worth IMO. Having to have a way to communicate between the two triangles plus having separate batteries for both, not to mention the weirdness of losing one of them, makes the product needlessly more complex. Having one device with two headphone outputs is much easier to build IMO.

sb23 10y ago
But then you both need to be in the same spot to use it. I like the idea of being able to sit on opposite sides of a room, or go for a run while using the device.
- dawidpacha 10y ago
  I'm willing to drop the triangle shape. I'm not that attached to it. However, we need to have two different devices that can be one. Don't worry about loosing them. I've figured that out. We are going to put 2 separate beacons in it. Netizens is the creator of the first beacons working in mesh network (take a look http://eonbeacon.com/ http://eonbeacon.com/), which is good for navigation as well. We are going to have an excellent tracking service within a Velo app, better than Tile.
- staticvar 10y ago
  Yes! And I want to ride bikes with friends and share audio!

noonespecial 10y ago

OSX can do this already with aggregate sound devices. I'm frankly surprised not to see it in IOS. I just kind of figured it would be there if I ever wanted it. Seems like a product with a market, but it takes guts to develop considering the precedent exists already in OSX and your business is just one little IOS feature-update away from getting hosed. Edit: Yes the world is bigger than the fruit-themed-brand, but generally as goes IOS, so goes Android.

deadringerr 10y ago

I like the concept. I've been interested in the idea of dedicated bluetooth pairing between two little audio connectors for awhile now. Having a bluetooth speaker with two different people who would like to use it, maybe it's just me but I would still prefer to unplug from one headphone jack to the other than have to both mess with our smartphones.

jc4p 10y ago

Don't override my scroll. I didn't even bother reading the page, I _hate_ when people override my scroll speed and make it 10x slower. Let me read the page at my own pace!

supercoder 10y ago
I love a bespoke scroll behaviour. Makes the page feel so unique and artisanal. All these cookie cutter websites with the same boring scroll behaviour are just not for me man.

supercoder 10y ago

I always just liked the stereo splitter. No batteries, cheap and it worked, whats the issue.

kalleboo 10y ago
Come next year, no phones are going to have headphone jacks anymore
- dawidpacha 10y ago
  @kalleboo That's what I believe as well. However there is going to be a lot of traditional headphones left on the market.
- supercoder 10y ago
  Yes they will, they'll just be in the form of lightning & USB-C. So I'll just buy a lightning splitter.
oxplot 10y ago
I can think of two: * Connecting an extra unpowered set of headphones will drop the overall impedance and depending on your source (e.g. a smart phone), you may not be able to get a reasonable volume. * Related to above, if you have to turn up the volume too high when using two headphones, you can easily damage your hearing when going back to one without lowering the volume. I have personally been bit by both.

sahaskatta 10y ago

Doesn't this $20 item on Monoprice do the same thing already? https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9722 https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9722

teraflop 10y ago
Furthermore: > Ok, so this is all just a concept. But we can turn this idea into a real product in a matter of 2 months. Isn't this an absurdly optimistic timeline for a hardware startup? I notice that both of the project founders are marketers -- were any engineers consulted when coming up with this estimate?
- dawidpacha 10y ago
  @teraflop Thanks for the comment. I want to clarify. By real product, I don't think mass production. I meant a working prototype with an acceptable design. Velo is an independent venture of mine, but with the full support of Netizens (it's where I work), once I validate the idea. I had consulted it with our R&D department many times along the way in recent weeks before I decided to go public with this concept.
dawidpacha 10y ago
@sahaskatta This is one of the available solutions. However, you need to have a jack port. I read Apple is dropping one tomorrow. Also in this case you need to have two Bluetooth headsets. Velo could support Bluetooth headsets, but traditional headphones seemed an easier choice. BTW Monoprice works with up to 2 headsets. We think that we could connect more than two headsets with Velo.
- PieterH 10y ago
  Using traditional headsets is a great idea. You should also IMO look into a software-only solution, i.e. a music player that streams its output to other smartphones via bluetooth or wifi. Because if your idea takes off, this is IMO what will kill a hardware product. And you might eventually talk to accessory makers to build such capability into cases.

greggman 10y ago

Cool Idea. I know I'm not the core user but ... I carry a standard audio splitter in my backpack. I think I've used it 3 times in 9 years. I know you're solving the issue for bluetooth and the future of digital headphones but are you sure there's a market? Not saying their isn't. Only that splitters are cheap and yet I don't think they're that popular. Maybe your product will change that?

Roritharr 10y ago

My Main usecase for this is movie nights. We have very sensitive neighbors and watching movies, especially ones with explosions and gunfire in them past 10pm makes them angry beyond belief, so being able to finish a movie with ~4-5 Headphones that I have stored for this purpose would make inviting friends over so much easier.

duckqlz 10y ago

I am interested in which audio codec will be used considering most powered analog splitters rarely work =P. With that said I'll be one of the first to buy once it is up since this would solve a minor inconvenience issue for me :+1:

voltagex_ 10y ago

I'm worried about the cost of adding the APT-X codec and/or a decent bluetooth chipset. FWIW, devices with real CSR chips have given me a lot less trouble than the knockoffs. And, although triangles are my favourite shape [1], I think two half-circles would be kinda cool, and probably fit better in my pocket. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPH89HIBLiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPH89HIBLiw (possibly NSFW?)

snovv_crash 10y ago

Just a heads up, 'Velo' means bicycle in French.

b3lvedere 10y ago

Very nice concept. Would it be technically possible to connect more than 2, say 4 or 8, to the same audio bluetooth audio source as well? Then maybe it could be possible to connect and disconnect these devices sort of like lego bricks. Each with their own audio jack, bluetooth and battery.

dawidpacha 10y ago

@everyone At the beginning, I was inspired by my new girlfriend, who is active and we like running together or play other sports ;) Like @reacweb says - it was about romance and freedom. So originally the product was supposed to be called just LOVE and be in the shape of the heart. I thought since Instagram is using heart instead of like, so what's the problem? I was stopped by my friends, who said it was not wise. Only girls would buy it. Just as a proof, I'm attaching first render we made: http://velo.audio/img/Velo-heart.png http://velo.audio/img/Velo-heart.png BTW VELO comes from VE and LO, which are just two syllables from LOVE but in a different order. It means that you can split the product and do whatever you want with this since you have freedom :)

oxplot 10y ago

The only way I know how this could work is if the two devices share, in realtime, the various parameters and timing information related to the active bluetooth stream (e.g. hopping to the same channel at the same exact time) since they won't be able to get any help from the transmitter (e.g. phone). If that's how it'll work, then it should be easy to have 10 of them receiving the same stream since one can be the master and configure every other one in its radio range.

jpl56 10y ago

why not "yin and yang" shapes rather than triangles?