4 ms·

Too bad they could also become 21st century's asbestos problem. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carbon-nanotube-danger/ http://www.scientificamerican

by mtgx 10y ago

Too bad they could also become 21st century's asbestos problem. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carbon-nanotube-danger/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carbon-nanotube-da...

vorotato 10y ago
Sure if we develop some kind of voracious habit of cracking processors open.
- mtgx 10y ago
  Maybe we will, if we do start putting a chip in everything around us (including our clothes). Then we'd also be more vulnerable to those chips potentially breaking around us, too. It probably still wouldn't be quite as bad as asbestos, though, as that's much more frail.
  - vorotato 10y ago
    Well and we were using a LOT of abestos, not a few grams here and there but kilos of the stuff.
- kens 10y ago
  Well, some people do have a voracious habit of cracking open chips to take a look inside. e.g. http://www.visual6502.org/images/6502/index.html http://www.visual6502.org/images/6502/index.html http://zeptobars.com/en/read/open-microchip-asic-what-inside-II-msp430-pic-z80 http://zeptobars.com/en/read/open-microchip-asic-what-inside... http://www.righto.com/2015/12/creating-high-resolution-integrated.html http://www.righto.com/2015/12/creating-high-resolution-integ...
  - vorotato 10y ago
    Those people will need to be careful then.
Retr0spectrum 10y ago
As long as it stays sealed inside a LGA (etc.) package, I can't see it causing any problems.
- kardos 10y ago
  Oh, you mean like keeping the lead in sealed lead acid batteries? Or the mercury in fluorescent tubes? Or the radioactive elements in the nuclear reactor? I'm not so confident that we're all that good at containment. If they are indeed dangerous, having them widely distributed makes them readily available for someone to break them open and poison someone. Perhaps they can be designed to self-destruct by rusting/oxidising/etc and become less harmful upon package breach.
  - adwn 10y ago
    > Oh, you mean like keeping the lead in sealed lead acid batteries? Or the mercury in fluorescent tubes? Or the radioactive elements in the nuclear reactor? Misleading analogy. Chip packages are very different from batteries, fluorescent tubes, and nuclear reactors. The only trait those have in common is "contains hazardous materials", so they cannot be used to predict the behavior of chip packages.
    - kardos 10y ago
      I agree that chip packages are as different from batteries/tubes/reactors as those three things are from each other, but that's pretty much the point. ICs are not immune to catastrophic failure either [1,2]. The analogy, "these things are well contained under normal conditions but not under abnormal conditions", stands. [1] See first photo here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failure_of_electronic_components https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failure_of_electronic_componen... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cKdh0UygVQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cKdh0UygVQ
williadc 10y ago
Seems that would only be an issue during manufacturing and disposal. CPU manufacturing already deals with hazardous materials, so that should not be a huge hurdle. On the disposal side, the hazard could be reduced by stepping up efforts to recycle old parts. Definitely something to be wary of.
jeffwass 10y ago
We're not coating pipes or making ceiling tiles with the stuff (yet...) But when built into diced wafer chips, it's really no more hazardous than most other hazardous materials used in the construction and fabrication of the phone or monitor your reading this comment on right now.
tener 10y ago
Carbon is not passive unlike asbestos. Leave it on fresh się and it will happily oxidize itself.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
ChuckMcM 10y ago
Unlikely. This was the original paper : http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v3/n7/abs/nnano.2008.111.html http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v3/n7/abs/nnano.2008.111... which is cited by about 1800 later papers. The challenge is that CNT's are not used in quantity as asbestos is, and they aren't used in ways that allows them to enter the lungs easily. That said, there are interesting therapies that have used CNTs being studied.

by mtgx 10y ago

Too bad they could also become 21st century's asbestos problem. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carbon-nanotube-danger/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carbon-nanotube-da...

vorotato 10y ago

Sure if we develop some kind of voracious habit of cracking processors open.

mtgx 10y ago
Maybe we will, if we do start putting a chip in everything around us (including our clothes). Then we'd also be more vulnerable to those chips potentially breaking around us, too. It probably still wouldn't be quite as bad as asbestos, though, as that's much more frail.
- vorotato 10y ago
  Well and we were using a LOT of abestos, not a few grams here and there but kilos of the stuff.
kens 10y ago
Well, some people do have a voracious habit of cracking open chips to take a look inside. e.g. http://www.visual6502.org/images/6502/index.html http://www.visual6502.org/images/6502/index.html http://zeptobars.com/en/read/open-microchip-asic-what-inside-II-msp430-pic-z80 http://zeptobars.com/en/read/open-microchip-asic-what-inside... http://www.righto.com/2015/12/creating-high-resolution-integrated.html http://www.righto.com/2015/12/creating-high-resolution-integ...
- vorotato 10y ago
  Those people will need to be careful then.

Retr0spectrum 10y ago

As long as it stays sealed inside a LGA (etc.) package, I can't see it causing any problems.

kardos 10y ago
Oh, you mean like keeping the lead in sealed lead acid batteries? Or the mercury in fluorescent tubes? Or the radioactive elements in the nuclear reactor? I'm not so confident that we're all that good at containment. If they are indeed dangerous, having them widely distributed makes them readily available for someone to break them open and poison someone. Perhaps they can be designed to self-destruct by rusting/oxidising/etc and become less harmful upon package breach.
- adwn 10y ago
  > Oh, you mean like keeping the lead in sealed lead acid batteries? Or the mercury in fluorescent tubes? Or the radioactive elements in the nuclear reactor? Misleading analogy. Chip packages are very different from batteries, fluorescent tubes, and nuclear reactors. The only trait those have in common is "contains hazardous materials", so they cannot be used to predict the behavior of chip packages.
  - kardos 10y ago
    I agree that chip packages are as different from batteries/tubes/reactors as those three things are from each other, but that's pretty much the point. ICs are not immune to catastrophic failure either [1,2]. The analogy, "these things are well contained under normal conditions but not under abnormal conditions", stands. [1] See first photo here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failure_of_electronic_components https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failure_of_electronic_componen... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cKdh0UygVQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cKdh0UygVQ

williadc 10y ago

Seems that would only be an issue during manufacturing and disposal. CPU manufacturing already deals with hazardous materials, so that should not be a huge hurdle. On the disposal side, the hazard could be reduced by stepping up efforts to recycle old parts. Definitely something to be wary of.

jeffwass 10y ago

We're not coating pipes or making ceiling tiles with the stuff (yet...) But when built into diced wafer chips, it's really no more hazardous than most other hazardous materials used in the construction and fabrication of the phone or monitor your reading this comment on right now.

tener 10y ago

Carbon is not passive unlike asbestos. Leave it on fresh się and it will happily oxidize itself.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

ChuckMcM 10y ago

Unlikely. This was the original paper : http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v3/n7/abs/nnano.2008.111.html http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v3/n7/abs/nnano.2008.111... which is cited by about 1800 later papers. The challenge is that CNT's are not used in quantity as asbestos is, and they aren't used in ways that allows them to enter the lungs easily. That said, there are interesting therapies that have used CNTs being studied.