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There is price, and there is cost... Living in the Netherlands, the price of a Tesla is around 100.000 euros. However, if I can lease the thing, the actual cos

There is price, and there is cost... Living in the Netherlands, the price of a Tesla is around 100.000 euros. However, if I can lease the thing, the actual cost (due to tax benefit, etc) drops like a rock to a level that compares to a small, cheap car. For full electric cars you hardly pay taxes because the government wants to stimulate this clean way of transportation. Now comparing to a Mercedes with a similar price is wrong, simply because the Mercedes with a similar price is costing much, much more in day to day operation: more tax (heavy car = high tax), no green car, so more taxes). I believe that at least for the Netherlands, most hybrid or full-electric cars are driven by people that have a company car. We just love tax refunds. We hate the hassle of charging, so many hybrid cars in 2015 (Mitsubishi Outlander is a good example) were driven on petrol - not electricity.

kgwgk 10y ago
> more tax (heavy car = high tax) The weights of the Tesla Model S and the Mercedea Class S are pretty much identical.
- PanMan 10y ago
  but, at least in the Netherlands, they are taxed way differently. I also heard people that leased them, and in the end the price over a few years is comparable to a €30K car, not another €100K car.
  - kgwgk 10y ago
    Yes, I understand that. I just pointed out that the reason is not that the Mercedes is heavy and the Tesla light.
    - boulos 10y ago
      Presumably this comes from the fuel efficiency per manufacturer fleet, which tends to discourage heavier vehicles as they usually are less fuel efficient. So heavier, more polluting vehicle counts against you not strictly heavier.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- avar 10y ago
  You're just misunderstanding the parent post. He mentioned that the Tesla is tax beneficial because it's electric and the Mercedes selling at around the same price isn't because of its weight. These two statements are not mutually exclusive. In The Netherlands cars are taxed on multiple factors[1] including CO^2 emission, type, and very significantly on weight. In Tesla's case the weight is being heavily offset by the lack of CO^2 emissions, whereas the Mercedes gets all the taxes of a normal gasoline car and the weight tax on top of that. 1. http://www.expatax.nl/kb/article/how-much-road-tax-will-i-have-to-pay-for-my-car-114.html http://www.expatax.nl/kb/article/how-much-road-tax-will-i-ha...
MarkMc 10y ago
> For full electric cars you hardly pay taxes because the government wants to stimulate this clean way of transportation. It's interesting that Netherlands seems to assume all electric cars are green. But Singapore actually calculates the carbon emissions per km and finds the Tesla Model S to be very environmentally unfriendly: the Model S attracts a surcharge of $15,000 while the BMW i3 gets a rebate of $30,000 [1]. [1] http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/electric-car-tesla-slapped-with-15000-tax-surcharge http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/electric-car...
- vic20forever 10y ago
  Tesla is contesting this [1]. [1] http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/lta-relooking-case-of-tesla-electric-car-slapped-with-15000-carbon-surcharge http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/lta-relookin...
  - NotSammyHagar 10y ago
    Yes, since electricity is generally as environmentally efficient if not much more so than gasoline, it should imply that a larger battery is even more efficient. This should be a mistake.
ams6110 10y ago
It's all well and good to "hardly pay taxes" on EVs when hardly anyone is driving them. It's not sustainable however, as revenue from road and fuel taxes will need to be replaced by some other tax at some point.
- NotSammyHagar 10y ago
  Washington state charges an extra $100 a year on evs because we don't pay road taxes through buying gas and paying the normal percentage of a gallon of gas.
paulddraper 10y ago
How is leasing cheaper than buying (due to tax benefit, etc.)? It seems the rent/loan/buying tradeoff would be independent of the choice of car.
- _Codemonkeyism 10y ago
  This is like when your carrier pays for the phone, lets say you pay 10 EUR per month for a mid class phone and 20 EUR per month for a premium phone. Looks like a small difference (+ a "price" for the phone) If you buy both without a carrier, you might pay 400 EUR for the mid class phone and 800 EUR for the premium phone. The price difference no looks huge. (The difference in acucmulated prices is the "buying" price of the phone)
- gambiting 10y ago
  Put it this way - it's not cheaper, but it's more affordable. Say a price of a brand new Tesla is 100k Euro. If you got a loan from a bank to buy it, you might be paying back 1000-2000 euro a month just to pay it back in a few years. That is quite a lot. There are companies however, which let you part-lease or part-hire or however they call it, when you pay roughly 1/2 of the value of the car over 3-4-5 years, but you don't get to keep it at the end. So you might have a brand new Tesla S, for say 400 euro a month - which is very affordable. The only caveat is that you don't get to own the car at the end - but for a lot of people that's not a huge issue.

kgwgk 10y ago

> more tax (heavy car = high tax) The weights of the Tesla Model S and the Mercedea Class S are pretty much identical.

PanMan 10y ago
but, at least in the Netherlands, they are taxed way differently. I also heard people that leased them, and in the end the price over a few years is comparable to a €30K car, not another €100K car.
- kgwgk 10y ago
  Yes, I understand that. I just pointed out that the reason is not that the Mercedes is heavy and the Tesla light.
  - boulos 10y ago
    Presumably this comes from the fuel efficiency per manufacturer fleet, which tends to discourage heavier vehicles as they usually are less fuel efficient. So heavier, more polluting vehicle counts against you not strictly heavier.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
avar 10y ago
You're just misunderstanding the parent post. He mentioned that the Tesla is tax beneficial because it's electric and the Mercedes selling at around the same price isn't because of its weight. These two statements are not mutually exclusive. In The Netherlands cars are taxed on multiple factors[1] including CO^2 emission, type, and very significantly on weight. In Tesla's case the weight is being heavily offset by the lack of CO^2 emissions, whereas the Mercedes gets all the taxes of a normal gasoline car and the weight tax on top of that. 1. http://www.expatax.nl/kb/article/how-much-road-tax-will-i-have-to-pay-for-my-car-114.html http://www.expatax.nl/kb/article/how-much-road-tax-will-i-ha...

MarkMc 10y ago

> For full electric cars you hardly pay taxes because the government wants to stimulate this clean way of transportation. It's interesting that Netherlands seems to assume all electric cars are green. But Singapore actually calculates the carbon emissions per km and finds the Tesla Model S to be very environmentally unfriendly: the Model S attracts a surcharge of $15,000 while the BMW i3 gets a rebate of $30,000 [1]. [1] http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/electric-car-tesla-slapped-with-15000-tax-surcharge http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/electric-car...

vic20forever 10y ago
Tesla is contesting this [1]. [1] http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/lta-relooking-case-of-tesla-electric-car-slapped-with-15000-carbon-surcharge http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/lta-relookin...
- NotSammyHagar 10y ago
  Yes, since electricity is generally as environmentally efficient if not much more so than gasoline, it should imply that a larger battery is even more efficient. This should be a mistake.

ams6110 10y ago

It's all well and good to "hardly pay taxes" on EVs when hardly anyone is driving them. It's not sustainable however, as revenue from road and fuel taxes will need to be replaced by some other tax at some point.

NotSammyHagar 10y ago
Washington state charges an extra $100 a year on evs because we don't pay road taxes through buying gas and paying the normal percentage of a gallon of gas.

paulddraper 10y ago

How is leasing cheaper than buying (due to tax benefit, etc.)? It seems the rent/loan/buying tradeoff would be independent of the choice of car.

_Codemonkeyism 10y ago
This is like when your carrier pays for the phone, lets say you pay 10 EUR per month for a mid class phone and 20 EUR per month for a premium phone. Looks like a small difference (+ a "price" for the phone) If you buy both without a carrier, you might pay 400 EUR for the mid class phone and 800 EUR for the premium phone. The price difference no looks huge. (The difference in acucmulated prices is the "buying" price of the phone)
gambiting 10y ago
Put it this way - it's not cheaper, but it's more affordable. Say a price of a brand new Tesla is 100k Euro. If you got a loan from a bank to buy it, you might be paying back 1000-2000 euro a month just to pay it back in a few years. That is quite a lot. There are companies however, which let you part-lease or part-hire or however they call it, when you pay roughly 1/2 of the value of the car over 3-4-5 years, but you don't get to keep it at the end. So you might have a brand new Tesla S, for say 400 euro a month - which is very affordable. The only caveat is that you don't get to own the car at the end - but for a lot of people that's not a huge issue.