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Oh yes you can, because it's a price bracket. As in, the people buying them value Teslas and Mercedeses similarly, although not necessarily for exactly the sam

Oh yes you can, because it's a price bracket. As in, the people buying them value Teslas and Mercedeses similarly, although not necessarily for exactly the same reasons. And if you think a S-class Mercedes is incomparably superior to a Tesla Model S, but the Tesla S is still outselling it by a wide margin, just imagine what's going to happen when Tesla's next iteration of a luxury sedan gets even closer to the Merc!

_Codemonkeyism 10y ago
"As in, the people buying them value Teslas and Mercedeses similarly, although not necessarily for exactly the same reasons." As we don't have data here we're thrown back to opinions. I would think Tesla users buy a Model S for the electric drive and it's an upper class car and for the branding ("I drive a Tesla, I'm cool") People buy a S-class because of the luxary and thebranding ("I drive a S-class, I'm rich"). "but the Tesla S is still outselling it by a wide margin" It's outselling the S-class because the market it markets itself to is larger.
- codeulike 10y ago
  Tesla dont pay for advertising, so I'm not sure what marketing you are referring to. Or how they are reaching a larger market?
  - privong 10y ago
    > Tesla dont pay for advertising, so I'm not sure what marketing you are referring to. Or how they are reaching a larger market? Marketing doesn't exclusively mean advertising: The American Marketing Association has defined marketing as "the activity, set of institutions, and processes for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large."[0] Tesla has a clear marketing strategy in terms of what types of cars they sell and to what types of people. The fact that they don't pay for advertising doesn't change that. Musk/Tesla can be selective about who they do interviews with, or provide test cars to, etc. Those things are part of the marketing, even if there is no explicit purchasing of advertising. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing
    - codeulike 10y ago
      Well fair enough. But given they dont actually advertise in the traditional sense, I dont see how the comment above can argue that they are 'aiming for a bigger market' than Mercedes flipping Benz.
  - _Codemonkeyism 10y ago
    You market a product towards a market with PR, interviews, ads, design, features which is much more than "Tesla dont pay for advertising"
    - matt-attack 10y ago
      So by virtue of giving your product a "feature" you've necessarily engaged in marketing? Sometimes people broaden definitions to such a degree they completely neuter the word.
      - baddox 10y ago
        Choosing which features to offer in which products absolutely falls into the widely accepted definition of "marketing." In fact, market segmentation is one of the most fundamental marketing strategies, and market segmentation is essentially just the practice of choosing a specific set of target customers and building features specifically for them.
    - codeulike 10y ago
      Thats true. But given that they dont pay for traditional advertising, I'm not sure why you are saying that they are aiming for a bigger market than Mercedes Benz. Do you think more people of the appropriate income bracket have heard of Mercedes Benz, or Tesla?
  - serge2k 10y ago
    Just look at the hype they get on HN. The God King doesn't need advertising when his disciples spread his words for free.
- skewart 10y ago
  The Tesla model S is a lot more fun to drive than an S class. But the S class is a much more pleasant and luxurious car as a passenger.
- dmix 10y ago
  Strange that you claim we don't have data then proceed to make bold claims that Tesla isn't a luxury brand, with weak supporting arguments... or close to no supporting arguments at all upon second reading. Tesla is trying to pivot towards mass market, this is well known. Whether they keep the luxury/sports line or push those into a new brand (or sub-brand) is the big question. But I don't think anyone questions whether or not the currently available Tesla cars fall into the luxury category. Both design and price suitable fall into that category. Mercedes might have an older and long-term luxury brand that is associated with the wealthy, which is helpful, but not an absolutely critical barrier for a brand/product to be put into the luxury category.
  - lsc 10y ago
    > Strange that you claim we don't have data then proceed to make bold claims that Tesla isn't a luxury brand, with weak supporting arguments... or close to no supporting arguments at all upon second reading. my feeling is that parent comment wasn't claiming that tesla wasn't a luxury brand but that it was a "cool upper-class" luxury brand. Now, obviously, this is a very slippery distinction, and as someone who probably wouldn't spend that much money on a car at all, sure, it looks like a meaningless distinction... but I don't think it is, I mean, to the people who might buy the car. Tesla, clearly, is a brand for people willing to spend a lot more than the minimum on transportation, so I do think it can properly be called a 'luxury brand', but I think parent's point was that Tesla is a luxury brand that appeals to people for whom other luxury brands wouldn't appeal. I do know several people who would be vaguely embarrassed to purchase a Benz, who would seriously consider the Tesla, mostly for social reasons... and when you get down to it, social reasons dominate for cars in that price range. Hell, I might be in that group? I mean, if I came into a huge amount of money tomorrow and was looking for a luxury car... I'd probably consider the Tesla to reflect more positively socially on me than a S class or something. Tesla is different from BMW or Mercedes just like Cadillac is different from those brands. (I mean, it has yet to be seen if Tesla will make BMW and Mercedes obsolete the way that Acura and Lexus made Cadillac obsolete. But the point being that there are big differences between the people who might buy the different luxury brands, even when the price range is similar.) Now, i don't know that parent is correct in saying that Tesla luxury appeals to more people than Benz or BMW luxury, or Acura or Lexus luxury, but I do think that parent is correct in that the overlap between people who would buy a Benz and people who would buy a Tesla is not 100%, even though they are priced similarly.
Vik1ng 10y ago
> Oh yes you can, because it's a price bracket. Did you actually check where a Model S starts after tax credits vs. the base price of a S-Class?

_Codemonkeyism 10y ago

"As in, the people buying them value Teslas and Mercedeses similarly, although not necessarily for exactly the same reasons." As we don't have data here we're thrown back to opinions. I would think Tesla users buy a Model S for the electric drive and it's an upper class car and for the branding ("I drive a Tesla, I'm cool") People buy a S-class because of the luxary and thebranding ("I drive a S-class, I'm rich"). "but the Tesla S is still outselling it by a wide margin" It's outselling the S-class because the market it markets itself to is larger.

codeulike 10y ago
Tesla dont pay for advertising, so I'm not sure what marketing you are referring to. Or how they are reaching a larger market?
- privong 10y ago
  > Tesla dont pay for advertising, so I'm not sure what marketing you are referring to. Or how they are reaching a larger market? Marketing doesn't exclusively mean advertising: The American Marketing Association has defined marketing as "the activity, set of institutions, and processes for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large."[0] Tesla has a clear marketing strategy in terms of what types of cars they sell and to what types of people. The fact that they don't pay for advertising doesn't change that. Musk/Tesla can be selective about who they do interviews with, or provide test cars to, etc. Those things are part of the marketing, even if there is no explicit purchasing of advertising. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing
  - codeulike 10y ago
    Well fair enough. But given they dont actually advertise in the traditional sense, I dont see how the comment above can argue that they are 'aiming for a bigger market' than Mercedes flipping Benz.
- _Codemonkeyism 10y ago
  You market a product towards a market with PR, interviews, ads, design, features which is much more than "Tesla dont pay for advertising"
  - matt-attack 10y ago
    So by virtue of giving your product a "feature" you've necessarily engaged in marketing? Sometimes people broaden definitions to such a degree they completely neuter the word.
    - baddox 10y ago
      Choosing which features to offer in which products absolutely falls into the widely accepted definition of "marketing." In fact, market segmentation is one of the most fundamental marketing strategies, and market segmentation is essentially just the practice of choosing a specific set of target customers and building features specifically for them.
  - codeulike 10y ago
    Thats true. But given that they dont pay for traditional advertising, I'm not sure why you are saying that they are aiming for a bigger market than Mercedes Benz. Do you think more people of the appropriate income bracket have heard of Mercedes Benz, or Tesla?
- serge2k 10y ago
  Just look at the hype they get on HN. The God King doesn't need advertising when his disciples spread his words for free.
skewart 10y ago
The Tesla model S is a lot more fun to drive than an S class. But the S class is a much more pleasant and luxurious car as a passenger.
dmix 10y ago
Strange that you claim we don't have data then proceed to make bold claims that Tesla isn't a luxury brand, with weak supporting arguments... or close to no supporting arguments at all upon second reading. Tesla is trying to pivot towards mass market, this is well known. Whether they keep the luxury/sports line or push those into a new brand (or sub-brand) is the big question. But I don't think anyone questions whether or not the currently available Tesla cars fall into the luxury category. Both design and price suitable fall into that category. Mercedes might have an older and long-term luxury brand that is associated with the wealthy, which is helpful, but not an absolutely critical barrier for a brand/product to be put into the luxury category.
- lsc 10y ago
  > Strange that you claim we don't have data then proceed to make bold claims that Tesla isn't a luxury brand, with weak supporting arguments... or close to no supporting arguments at all upon second reading. my feeling is that parent comment wasn't claiming that tesla wasn't a luxury brand but that it was a "cool upper-class" luxury brand. Now, obviously, this is a very slippery distinction, and as someone who probably wouldn't spend that much money on a car at all, sure, it looks like a meaningless distinction... but I don't think it is, I mean, to the people who might buy the car. Tesla, clearly, is a brand for people willing to spend a lot more than the minimum on transportation, so I do think it can properly be called a 'luxury brand', but I think parent's point was that Tesla is a luxury brand that appeals to people for whom other luxury brands wouldn't appeal. I do know several people who would be vaguely embarrassed to purchase a Benz, who would seriously consider the Tesla, mostly for social reasons... and when you get down to it, social reasons dominate for cars in that price range. Hell, I might be in that group? I mean, if I came into a huge amount of money tomorrow and was looking for a luxury car... I'd probably consider the Tesla to reflect more positively socially on me than a S class or something. Tesla is different from BMW or Mercedes just like Cadillac is different from those brands. (I mean, it has yet to be seen if Tesla will make BMW and Mercedes obsolete the way that Acura and Lexus made Cadillac obsolete. But the point being that there are big differences between the people who might buy the different luxury brands, even when the price range is similar.) Now, i don't know that parent is correct in saying that Tesla luxury appeals to more people than Benz or BMW luxury, or Acura or Lexus luxury, but I do think that parent is correct in that the overlap between people who would buy a Benz and people who would buy a Tesla is not 100%, even though they are priced similarly.

Vik1ng 10y ago

> Oh yes you can, because it's a price bracket. Did you actually check where a Model S starts after tax credits vs. the base price of a S-Class?