5 ms·

Google for "hidden champions". That's the name given to many of the companies that are actually world & technology leaders in their respective markets but that

Google for "hidden champions". That's the name given to many of the companies that are actually world & technology leaders in their respective markets but that are unknown even to most people in Germany.

raverbashing 10y ago
Also "mittelstand"
- Jugurtha 10y ago
  I love the way Germans use that word, which is the equivalent of Small and Medium-sized Entreprises in the U.S. (I'm from Algeria, it's PME here). I was watching a segment on these companies the other day that addressed the importance of small companies, which constitute the backbone of the German economy. They took one such small company and chatted with its founder. He started talking numbers and I believe he said his small company builds tunnel boring machines and had a turnover of about 5 billion euros. They also mentioned how they're not worried about China because Chinese companies mass produce stuff using German machinery. And how German companies make "the thing that goes into the thing that goes into the thing". Anyway, it was of course an oversimplified CNN-MSNBC-like segment, but it's interesting to see what they consider small company.
  - sumedh 10y ago
    How long will it take for the Chinese companies to copy the German tech and make the machine inhouse?
    - tome 10y ago
      I guess it's not that easy to copy tunnel boring machines.
      - Jugurtha 10y ago
        As I said in my previous comment, I don't think that China can't. It's a launch capable country and I think it's safe to assume that if they're launching rockets and and putting stuff into orbit, tunnel boring machines are well within their adjacent possible. We're talking about a nation that had ships 450 feet long and 150 feet wide 600 years ago. If Noah was real, he was probably Chinese, lived in the 15th century, and the animal pairs he took with him were fast robotized arms from Germany.
    - Jugurtha 10y ago
      I don't think China can't build the technology. The most known brands in industrial robots for example are the Swiss ABB and the German KUKA. These are ubiquitous (even in the U.S.) the same way Siemens (German) is in Programmable Logic Controllers. So I don't think it's a matter of being unable to make it, maybe the comparative advantage lies somewhere else. PS: Here's a website that I love. http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/ http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/ You can look things up by country, by product, etc. What country exports to what other country, and what does it export or import. There's also the "economic complexity index" of each country. Pretty neat.
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        ABB is headquartered in Zurich but is Swedish-Swiss more than just Swiss.
        Jugurtha 10y ago
        Yeah, it is. I can't edit it anymore but thanks for adding that for memo.
    - ThePhysicist 10y ago
      I think it's more useful to think of innovation as a continuous process instead of something static. Following that line of thinking, even if your competitor is be able to fully replicate your product, he will still be unable to follow your pace of innovation. In addition, the services and expertise around a given product are usually as important as the product itself, and harder to replicate than the product.
      - Jugurtha 10y ago
        >In addition, the services and expertise around a given product are usually as important as the product itself Exactly. A friend and I were chatting (he's a dental surgeon) and it came up that in dental care, many things that cost in the 2-4k in the US or Europe cost about 200 bucks here (Algeria) - same techniques, same materials, same hygiene standards, etc -. Naturally, I asked him why there weren't people flocking from Europe (it's about 100 euros round trip from here). He said that even if dental care is cheap, everything around it sucks. He said that neighboring countries built the infrastructure to allow this to be possible (specialized resorts that have deals with clinics, etc). Tourism is thought with this in mind. He said that if you compare that with our country, there's too much friction for your average European. On a cost based analysis, it's still worth it. Many Algerians who reside abroad get all their medical/dental care and their children's done here when they visit, but they know the country and have family. They're not in a completely unknown territory. It's not enough that something is technically possible, there are many parameters (even social parameters) that enter into consideration.
        patrickk 10y ago
        > Naturally, I asked him why there weren't people flocking from Europe (it's about 100 euros round trip from here). He said that even if dental care is cheap, everything around it sucks. He said that neighboring countries built the infrastructure to allow this to be possible (specialized resorts that have deals with clinics, etc). Tourism is thought with this in mind. > He said that if you compare that with our country, there's too much friction for your average European. > On a cost based analysis, it's still worth it. I'll try to explain why this wouldn't be worth it to me, even if it would cost x100 less for dental care. I'm in Germany, and I'm obliged to pay for a private health insurer provider (almost €300 per month), even though I'm a healthy late twenties individual. It doesn't matter that I barely use medical or dental services at all, I am obliged to pay that by law, even though I just use it for the occasional checkup, getting my teeth cleaned, etc. I don't care if my dental work costs €5 or €500, my insurance provider picks up the bill. I don't care at all. In this case, the entity using the service and the entity paying the bill are completely separate. My free time is very limited, I have a full schedule, working full time, social life, gym, hobbies, etc. I don't really have time to take time off for medical tourism to Algeria, I want to enjoy my free time. There is also the perception issue, I have no idea if I can trust anyone there. Also, I wouldn't compare dental care costs between the US and Europe. From what I've read, the US is in it's own special price category for a lot of things related to dental/medical expenditures. Look at EpiPen fiasco, Turing Pharmaceutical, and many more. That stuff doesn't happen in Canada, Europe, Australia, or if it does its much rarer than in the US.
    - patrickk 10y ago
      They're trying to simply buy their way in: http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-deal-makers-have-germany-tech-firms-in-their-sights-1465394152 http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-deal-makers-have-germany-...
  - DasIch 10y ago
    Size in that case generally applies to the number of employees and not to revenue, profits, market share or anything like that.
    - Jugurtha 10y ago
      Nevertheless, it was interesting to see how they downplayed their company. There was no woop woop and no flamboyance. I liked that.
  - Nimitz14 10y ago
    > They took one such small company and chatted with its founder. He started talking numbers and I believe he said his small company builds tunnel boring machines and had a turnover of about 5 billion euros. Herrenknecht?
    - Jugurtha 10y ago
      I can't remember the company name, sorry.
dilemma 10y ago
Wouldn't that have more to do with the company serving businesses rather than consumers, and so have less need for general brand awareness, and focus their sales and marketing efforts entirely differently?

raverbashing 10y ago

Also "mittelstand"

Jugurtha 10y ago
I love the way Germans use that word, which is the equivalent of Small and Medium-sized Entreprises in the U.S. (I'm from Algeria, it's PME here). I was watching a segment on these companies the other day that addressed the importance of small companies, which constitute the backbone of the German economy. They took one such small company and chatted with its founder. He started talking numbers and I believe he said his small company builds tunnel boring machines and had a turnover of about 5 billion euros. They also mentioned how they're not worried about China because Chinese companies mass produce stuff using German machinery. And how German companies make "the thing that goes into the thing that goes into the thing". Anyway, it was of course an oversimplified CNN-MSNBC-like segment, but it's interesting to see what they consider small company.
- sumedh 10y ago
  How long will it take for the Chinese companies to copy the German tech and make the machine inhouse?
  - tome 10y ago
    I guess it's not that easy to copy tunnel boring machines.
    - Jugurtha 10y ago
      As I said in my previous comment, I don't think that China can't. It's a launch capable country and I think it's safe to assume that if they're launching rockets and and putting stuff into orbit, tunnel boring machines are well within their adjacent possible. We're talking about a nation that had ships 450 feet long and 150 feet wide 600 years ago. If Noah was real, he was probably Chinese, lived in the 15th century, and the animal pairs he took with him were fast robotized arms from Germany.
  - Jugurtha 10y ago
    I don't think China can't build the technology. The most known brands in industrial robots for example are the Swiss ABB and the German KUKA. These are ubiquitous (even in the U.S.) the same way Siemens (German) is in Programmable Logic Controllers. So I don't think it's a matter of being unable to make it, maybe the comparative advantage lies somewhere else. PS: Here's a website that I love. http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/ http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/ You can look things up by country, by product, etc. What country exports to what other country, and what does it export or import. There's also the "economic complexity index" of each country. Pretty neat.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      ABB is headquartered in Zurich but is Swedish-Swiss more than just Swiss.
      - Jugurtha 10y ago
        Yeah, it is. I can't edit it anymore but thanks for adding that for memo.
  - ThePhysicist 10y ago
    I think it's more useful to think of innovation as a continuous process instead of something static. Following that line of thinking, even if your competitor is be able to fully replicate your product, he will still be unable to follow your pace of innovation. In addition, the services and expertise around a given product are usually as important as the product itself, and harder to replicate than the product.
    - Jugurtha 10y ago
      >In addition, the services and expertise around a given product are usually as important as the product itself Exactly. A friend and I were chatting (he's a dental surgeon) and it came up that in dental care, many things that cost in the 2-4k in the US or Europe cost about 200 bucks here (Algeria) - same techniques, same materials, same hygiene standards, etc -. Naturally, I asked him why there weren't people flocking from Europe (it's about 100 euros round trip from here). He said that even if dental care is cheap, everything around it sucks. He said that neighboring countries built the infrastructure to allow this to be possible (specialized resorts that have deals with clinics, etc). Tourism is thought with this in mind. He said that if you compare that with our country, there's too much friction for your average European. On a cost based analysis, it's still worth it. Many Algerians who reside abroad get all their medical/dental care and their children's done here when they visit, but they know the country and have family. They're not in a completely unknown territory. It's not enough that something is technically possible, there are many parameters (even social parameters) that enter into consideration.
      - patrickk 10y ago
        > Naturally, I asked him why there weren't people flocking from Europe (it's about 100 euros round trip from here). He said that even if dental care is cheap, everything around it sucks. He said that neighboring countries built the infrastructure to allow this to be possible (specialized resorts that have deals with clinics, etc). Tourism is thought with this in mind. > He said that if you compare that with our country, there's too much friction for your average European. > On a cost based analysis, it's still worth it. I'll try to explain why this wouldn't be worth it to me, even if it would cost x100 less for dental care. I'm in Germany, and I'm obliged to pay for a private health insurer provider (almost €300 per month), even though I'm a healthy late twenties individual. It doesn't matter that I barely use medical or dental services at all, I am obliged to pay that by law, even though I just use it for the occasional checkup, getting my teeth cleaned, etc. I don't care if my dental work costs €5 or €500, my insurance provider picks up the bill. I don't care at all. In this case, the entity using the service and the entity paying the bill are completely separate. My free time is very limited, I have a full schedule, working full time, social life, gym, hobbies, etc. I don't really have time to take time off for medical tourism to Algeria, I want to enjoy my free time. There is also the perception issue, I have no idea if I can trust anyone there. Also, I wouldn't compare dental care costs between the US and Europe. From what I've read, the US is in it's own special price category for a lot of things related to dental/medical expenditures. Look at EpiPen fiasco, Turing Pharmaceutical, and many more. That stuff doesn't happen in Canada, Europe, Australia, or if it does its much rarer than in the US.
  - patrickk 10y ago
    They're trying to simply buy their way in: http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-deal-makers-have-germany-tech-firms-in-their-sights-1465394152 http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-deal-makers-have-germany-...
- DasIch 10y ago
  Size in that case generally applies to the number of employees and not to revenue, profits, market share or anything like that.
  - Jugurtha 10y ago
    Nevertheless, it was interesting to see how they downplayed their company. There was no woop woop and no flamboyance. I liked that.
- Nimitz14 10y ago
  > They took one such small company and chatted with its founder. He started talking numbers and I believe he said his small company builds tunnel boring machines and had a turnover of about 5 billion euros. Herrenknecht?
  - Jugurtha 10y ago
    I can't remember the company name, sorry.

dilemma 10y ago

Wouldn't that have more to do with the company serving businesses rather than consumers, and so have less need for general brand awareness, and focus their sales and marketing efforts entirely differently?