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I think this sums the situation up quite well and explains why Mercedes, BMW, etc. have not put a serious Tesla competitor on the streets yet: > We have to ear

I think this sums the situation up quite well and explains why Mercedes, BMW, etc. have not put a serious Tesla competitor on the streets yet: > We have to earn money at the end of the day though.

VeejayRampay 10y ago
But isn't always the game with ground-breaking technologies though? At first you don't make as much money, but you're laying the road for the big thing. And when the revolution begins, you're the one making the big bucks.
- wott 10y ago
  Not always at all. Also often, the forerunner disappears when other companies jump in at a later, proven, profitable stage of the technology, when both technology and the market are ready for mass production.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    Or else they just buy the upstart.
  - endymi0n 10y ago
    This. Ever heard of Myspace? Altavista? When making a market, watch out for well equipped and funded upstarts going to get you. Next victims of their own success: Docker.
    - tokipin 10y ago
      I think in those cases, it was a matter of a better-designed, clearer-headed product taking space from a not-so-well-designed product. That's not what would happen here, because Tesla is already the creme de la creme. In fact, Tesla executing so well is the only reason EVs have seen their recent "resurgence" in the first place. And remember that Tesla isn't the first company to make electric cars. I also think people underestimate by a lot how hard making new things is. It's not just a matter of coming in with more money. It's almost deceptive on Tesla's part that the cars seem simple. But if it really were so simple the Model S would already have competition. And when you're talking about someone who has raised a company that lands rockets in the middle of the ocean, competitors are fooling themselves if they think even just a superficial copy is going to be easy. This is something they have to bring their A game to at all levels.
  - Avshalom 10y ago
    It's pretty much been the story of Apple.
- kagamine 10y ago
  Look back at 100 years of automobile manufacturing. The big companies we have today are the survivors. As recently as this century, Rover Group, a company that was around for a century and made a great product ceased to be. The tax perks in many countries that have buoyed up Tesla sales are ending. So perhaps manufacturers don't see now as a good time to enter a market containing risk. Better to wait it out and plan accordingly.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    Rover group and British Leyland as they were made some terrible products.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      'The parts falling off this car are of the very finest British manufacture.'
    - kagamine 10y ago
      They had some excellent ones too. Rover 600 & 75 were good cars. Many major manufacturers have had life-threatening failures in recent years resulting in recalls. Some surviving brands were much, much worse than Rover Group at quality. Lancia still exist, Alfa Romeo exist. Fiat in the 1980s, no thanks, I'm not paying for rust.
      - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
        The Italian cars did rust at the slightest hint of damp weather but you soon forgot about that when you got behind the wheel. They had flair, style and driver engagement in abundance. When I look back at the Rovers my dad drove they were as dull as dishwater and very poor quality.
varjag 10y ago
On the other hand, they didn't need to create the company, the product and distribution network from scratch in a competitive environment. They had R&D and testing facilities, engineer workforce, factories and supply chains in place. They are just excusing themselves out of this blunder. They sat on their asses changing the grill shapes and let an upstart undercut them.
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  >They sat on their asses changing the grill shapes and let an upstart undercut them Or...maybe no one has figured out how to produce an economically viable electric car yet, Tesla included? I mean, if already having the company, product and distribution is such a huge advantage, then the competitors have massive leverage, no? Or do you think Tesla has "already won"?
  - varjag 10y ago
    They did have massive leverage, the whole point of my post was they did not manage use it and are blame-shifting. Tesla loses money due to continuing massive capital investment into production facilities, they still sell each car for more than what it costs to produce. It is a rapid growth problem, certainly one of those things that Porshe executives are not familiar with.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  It's easy to undercut another company if you're willing to make a loss. If Tesla reaches profitability you can bet there will be a lot of other EVs on the road within two years from that point precisely for the reasons you listed in your first paragraph.
  - varjag 10y ago
    There been some dry spells for Porsche as well, when it was losing on the order of billions within a year. This does not reflect to maturity of internal combustion engine technology or viability of luxury vehicle business of Porsche. That statement connected two non contradicting issues. Porsche could make that premium electric car, and it could stay in black.
mtgx 10y ago
They may not earn any money in 15-20 years, if they don't become more serious about EVs, though.
- kuschku 10y ago
  They own Here maps, have laser-mapped all of Europe, work on self-driving cars, and own several european Uber-competitors and have stakes in many smaller taxi companies. I’m sure they’ll find a way to survive.

I think this sums the situation up quite well and explains why Mercedes, BMW, etc. have not put a serious Tesla competitor on the streets yet: > We have to earn money at the end of the day though.

VeejayRampay 10y ago

But isn't always the game with ground-breaking technologies though? At first you don't make as much money, but you're laying the road for the big thing. And when the revolution begins, you're the one making the big bucks.

wott 10y ago
Not always at all. Also often, the forerunner disappears when other companies jump in at a later, proven, profitable stage of the technology, when both technology and the market are ready for mass production.
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  Or else they just buy the upstart.
- endymi0n 10y ago
  This. Ever heard of Myspace? Altavista? When making a market, watch out for well equipped and funded upstarts going to get you. Next victims of their own success: Docker.
  - tokipin 10y ago
    I think in those cases, it was a matter of a better-designed, clearer-headed product taking space from a not-so-well-designed product. That's not what would happen here, because Tesla is already the creme de la creme. In fact, Tesla executing so well is the only reason EVs have seen their recent "resurgence" in the first place. And remember that Tesla isn't the first company to make electric cars. I also think people underestimate by a lot how hard making new things is. It's not just a matter of coming in with more money. It's almost deceptive on Tesla's part that the cars seem simple. But if it really were so simple the Model S would already have competition. And when you're talking about someone who has raised a company that lands rockets in the middle of the ocean, competitors are fooling themselves if they think even just a superficial copy is going to be easy. This is something they have to bring their A game to at all levels.
- Avshalom 10y ago
  It's pretty much been the story of Apple.
kagamine 10y ago
Look back at 100 years of automobile manufacturing. The big companies we have today are the survivors. As recently as this century, Rover Group, a company that was around for a century and made a great product ceased to be. The tax perks in many countries that have buoyed up Tesla sales are ending. So perhaps manufacturers don't see now as a good time to enter a market containing risk. Better to wait it out and plan accordingly.
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  Rover group and British Leyland as they were made some terrible products.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    'The parts falling off this car are of the very finest British manufacture.'
  - kagamine 10y ago
    They had some excellent ones too. Rover 600 & 75 were good cars. Many major manufacturers have had life-threatening failures in recent years resulting in recalls. Some surviving brands were much, much worse than Rover Group at quality. Lancia still exist, Alfa Romeo exist. Fiat in the 1980s, no thanks, I'm not paying for rust.
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      The Italian cars did rust at the slightest hint of damp weather but you soon forgot about that when you got behind the wheel. They had flair, style and driver engagement in abundance. When I look back at the Rovers my dad drove they were as dull as dishwater and very poor quality.

varjag 10y ago

On the other hand, they didn't need to create the company, the product and distribution network from scratch in a competitive environment. They had R&D and testing facilities, engineer workforce, factories and supply chains in place. They are just excusing themselves out of this blunder. They sat on their asses changing the grill shapes and let an upstart undercut them.

forgetsusername 10y ago
>They sat on their asses changing the grill shapes and let an upstart undercut them Or...maybe no one has figured out how to produce an economically viable electric car yet, Tesla included? I mean, if already having the company, product and distribution is such a huge advantage, then the competitors have massive leverage, no? Or do you think Tesla has "already won"?
- varjag 10y ago
  They did have massive leverage, the whole point of my post was they did not manage use it and are blame-shifting. Tesla loses money due to continuing massive capital investment into production facilities, they still sell each car for more than what it costs to produce. It is a rapid growth problem, certainly one of those things that Porshe executives are not familiar with.
jacquesm 10y ago
It's easy to undercut another company if you're willing to make a loss. If Tesla reaches profitability you can bet there will be a lot of other EVs on the road within two years from that point precisely for the reasons you listed in your first paragraph.
- varjag 10y ago
  There been some dry spells for Porsche as well, when it was losing on the order of billions within a year. This does not reflect to maturity of internal combustion engine technology or viability of luxury vehicle business of Porsche. That statement connected two non contradicting issues. Porsche could make that premium electric car, and it could stay in black.

mtgx 10y ago

They may not earn any money in 15-20 years, if they don't become more serious about EVs, though.

kuschku 10y ago
They own Here maps, have laser-mapped all of Europe, work on self-driving cars, and own several european Uber-competitors and have stakes in many smaller taxi companies. I’m sure they’ll find a way to survive.