4 ms·

Three years seems like an unreasonable timespan. They might end up with people who have little to no social skills with that kind of policy. I don't mean to say

by nefitty 10y ago

Three years seems like an unreasonable timespan. They might end up with people who have little to no social skills with that kind of policy. I don't mean to say that not abstaining for that length of time is abnormal, but young people who are the most adept and skilled with new technologies are bound to find themselves in a situation where they take a hit. I wonder if the drug tests after that are regularly scheduled or if they take you at your word once you're hired.

strictnein 10y ago
Three years is kind of crazy. NSA, CIA, and other agencies it's one year. FBI should have the easiest time finding hackers. Unlike the CIA and NSA, they have offices in almost every major city, but they don't seem to take advantage of that at all. They don't event list any tech/cyber/whatever roles here: https://apply.fbijobs.gov/ https://apply.fbijobs.gov/
- drawnwren 10y ago
  False. NSA is definitely 10 years [1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Scope_Background_Investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Scope_Background_Invest...
  - badlucklottery 10y ago
    You can still pass your investigation if you've done drugs in the last 10 years but you do have to disclose it and sign a form that states you won't do it again or associate with anyone who does while you have a clearance (edit: or at least that's how it was 10 years ago). The purpose of clearance investigations isn't to dig up dirt in order to hurt you you, it's to find out what dirt foreign intel services can dig up on you in order to hurt/blackmail you.
    - kristofferR 10y ago
      > or associate with anyone who does No wonder they're having problems finding candidates. Hackers are probably way more likely to use certain drugs like weed, MDMA and psychedelics than the general population, due to their intellectual curiosity and intelligence levels (which I assume are significantly higher than the average). Do they really force applicants to disassociate with their friends and family, like in Scientology, or is it just a rule they only care really about in the most serious cases (if friends are dealers or have drug problems etc)?
      - skafjvhs 10y ago
        Well, they make everyone sign the papers, and they frequently polygraph. It's risky to get a clearance if you are breaking the rules. You'd have to keep your story straight, and have the ability to defeat test anxiety. Maybe that's a good process if you are trying to find a good spy. Not very good for recruiting a hacker. I hear they bend the rules for extraordinary candidates - maybe that applies to all hackers these days.
        AstralStorm 10y ago
        Using a broken lie detection methodology? Is that even legal? Polygraph evidence is not admissible in US courts anymore.
        skafjvhs 10y ago
        The Employee Polygraph Protection Act prevents US employers from testing their employees. The government is exempt.
      - badlucklottery 10y ago
        >Do they really force applicants to disassociate with their friends and family Anecdotal but it wasn't enforced at all. I suspect it was a CYA measure for firing someone with undesirable connections but no illegal activities.
    - drawnwren 10y ago
      Now, you may have experimented up to a certain very low threshold (something like experimented with marijuana less than 3-5x in your life) before applying for your first clearance. You are still fucked if you have a clearance and do drugs, ever.
  - strictnein 10y ago
    Ehh... no, that's how far back they look, but only within the last year is sometimes a disqualifier. I can tell you that they will overlook even fairly recent usage sometimes. CIA: "To be considered suitable for Agency employment, applicants must generally not have used illegal drugs or misused prescription drugs within the last 12 months." NSA: "Recent and/or frequent use of illegal drugs, including marijuana even in states whose laws permit its recreational or medical use, could raise a security concern, and may be disqualifying"
drawnwren 10y ago
They are most likely randomly administered to all employees along with a regularly scheduled polygraph. That's the DoD's model.
badlucklottery 10y ago
>I wonder if the drug tests after that are regularly scheduled or if they take you at your word once you're hired. If the FBI anything like the DOE it's random for the duration you have a clearance. Random polygraphs too which are much, much worse.
- corobo 10y ago
  So scrolling through this thread so far we have - No smoking pot in 3 years - Random drug tests - Random lie detector tests - Not the best pay in the world - Lousy career prospects - Working with others who they admit aren't the most technical in the world Yeah can't see why they're having trouble hiring
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    They probably rely on a sense of patriotism/duty/exclusivity to make this work for other "on the line" departments
  - flukus 10y ago
    I guess you can throw ridiculous dress code in too?
MichaelBurge 10y ago
Now that it's been legalized in Oregon, there are marijuana stores all over. But before that, I don't even know where'd you'd get the stuff. Occasionally when I'd ride a train to work at 4 AM, somebody would come up and try to buy it from me; so I guess I look like a drug dealer. In states where it's illegal, do you just wander the streets at night asking people for pot, and hope it's not laced with rat poison? I've literally never seen actual marijuana in real life before, even in a state where it's legal. So I'm not sure I buy this argument that you can't go 3 years without smoking the stuff.
- flukus 10y ago
  It's about knowing the right people, you have to know someone, or know someone that knows someone. Ideally that someone is near the end of the supply chain. Have you asked around your circle of friends? Or asked them to ask around for you? You probably aren't too many hops away from a supplier.
- mikestew 10y ago
  In states where it's illegal, do you just wander the streets at night asking people for pot, and hope it's not laced with rat poison? First off, it is the rare businessperson who sees harming their customer as the road to success. But such antics do occasionally happen, so I won't belabor it. Second, you live in Oregon? Unless you live with a restrictive religious sect, I guarantee at least one of your friends gets high. Figure out who it is, ask them. I'm sure Portland, like Seattle, has a park or two; put your hoodie on and go for a walk. Or just ask the internet these days. All moot for you now, as you swing by the store on the way home.

by nefitty 10y ago

strictnein 10y ago

Three years is kind of crazy. NSA, CIA, and other agencies it's one year. FBI should have the easiest time finding hackers. Unlike the CIA and NSA, they have offices in almost every major city, but they don't seem to take advantage of that at all. They don't event list any tech/cyber/whatever roles here: https://apply.fbijobs.gov/ https://apply.fbijobs.gov/

drawnwren 10y ago
False. NSA is definitely 10 years [1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Scope_Background_Investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Scope_Background_Invest...
- badlucklottery 10y ago
  You can still pass your investigation if you've done drugs in the last 10 years but you do have to disclose it and sign a form that states you won't do it again or associate with anyone who does while you have a clearance (edit: or at least that's how it was 10 years ago). The purpose of clearance investigations isn't to dig up dirt in order to hurt you you, it's to find out what dirt foreign intel services can dig up on you in order to hurt/blackmail you.
  - kristofferR 10y ago
    > or associate with anyone who does No wonder they're having problems finding candidates. Hackers are probably way more likely to use certain drugs like weed, MDMA and psychedelics than the general population, due to their intellectual curiosity and intelligence levels (which I assume are significantly higher than the average). Do they really force applicants to disassociate with their friends and family, like in Scientology, or is it just a rule they only care really about in the most serious cases (if friends are dealers or have drug problems etc)?
    - skafjvhs 10y ago
      Well, they make everyone sign the papers, and they frequently polygraph. It's risky to get a clearance if you are breaking the rules. You'd have to keep your story straight, and have the ability to defeat test anxiety. Maybe that's a good process if you are trying to find a good spy. Not very good for recruiting a hacker. I hear they bend the rules for extraordinary candidates - maybe that applies to all hackers these days.
      - AstralStorm 10y ago
        Using a broken lie detection methodology? Is that even legal? Polygraph evidence is not admissible in US courts anymore.
        skafjvhs 10y ago
        The Employee Polygraph Protection Act prevents US employers from testing their employees. The government is exempt.
    - badlucklottery 10y ago
      >Do they really force applicants to disassociate with their friends and family Anecdotal but it wasn't enforced at all. I suspect it was a CYA measure for firing someone with undesirable connections but no illegal activities.
  - drawnwren 10y ago
    Now, you may have experimented up to a certain very low threshold (something like experimented with marijuana less than 3-5x in your life) before applying for your first clearance. You are still fucked if you have a clearance and do drugs, ever.
- strictnein 10y ago
  Ehh... no, that's how far back they look, but only within the last year is sometimes a disqualifier. I can tell you that they will overlook even fairly recent usage sometimes. CIA: "To be considered suitable for Agency employment, applicants must generally not have used illegal drugs or misused prescription drugs within the last 12 months." NSA: "Recent and/or frequent use of illegal drugs, including marijuana even in states whose laws permit its recreational or medical use, could raise a security concern, and may be disqualifying"

drawnwren 10y ago

They are most likely randomly administered to all employees along with a regularly scheduled polygraph. That's the DoD's model.

badlucklottery 10y ago

>I wonder if the drug tests after that are regularly scheduled or if they take you at your word once you're hired. If the FBI anything like the DOE it's random for the duration you have a clearance. Random polygraphs too which are much, much worse.

corobo 10y ago
So scrolling through this thread so far we have - No smoking pot in 3 years - Random drug tests - Random lie detector tests - Not the best pay in the world - Lousy career prospects - Working with others who they admit aren't the most technical in the world Yeah can't see why they're having trouble hiring
- raverbashing 10y ago
  They probably rely on a sense of patriotism/duty/exclusivity to make this work for other "on the line" departments
- flukus 10y ago
  I guess you can throw ridiculous dress code in too?

MichaelBurge 10y ago

Now that it's been legalized in Oregon, there are marijuana stores all over. But before that, I don't even know where'd you'd get the stuff. Occasionally when I'd ride a train to work at 4 AM, somebody would come up and try to buy it from me; so I guess I look like a drug dealer. In states where it's illegal, do you just wander the streets at night asking people for pot, and hope it's not laced with rat poison? I've literally never seen actual marijuana in real life before, even in a state where it's legal. So I'm not sure I buy this argument that you can't go 3 years without smoking the stuff.

flukus 10y ago
It's about knowing the right people, you have to know someone, or know someone that knows someone. Ideally that someone is near the end of the supply chain. Have you asked around your circle of friends? Or asked them to ask around for you? You probably aren't too many hops away from a supplier.
mikestew 10y ago
In states where it's illegal, do you just wander the streets at night asking people for pot, and hope it's not laced with rat poison? First off, it is the rare businessperson who sees harming their customer as the road to success. But such antics do occasionally happen, so I won't belabor it. Second, you live in Oregon? Unless you live with a restrictive religious sect, I guarantee at least one of your friends gets high. Figure out who it is, ask them. I'm sure Portland, like Seattle, has a park or two; put your hoodie on and go for a walk. Or just ask the internet these days. All moot for you now, as you swing by the store on the way home.