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Why does his discussion of automatic transmissions sound like he hasn't actually driven a car with an automatic in twenty years or so? His comments, compared to

Why does his discussion of automatic transmissions sound like he hasn't actually driven a car with an automatic in twenty years or so? His comments, compared to my actual experience of driving various automatics over the past decade, feel like someone who says cars must not be so great because of how you have to turn the hand crank on the front to start the engine, not realizing that this is a solved problem now.

RyanMcGreal 17y ago
He may be exaggerating for effect but I don't think his assessment is wrong. I drove a fairly new automatic recently and it wasn't fun. Better than 18 years ago when I last owned an automatic, but still not nearly as smoothly integrated as my Japanese five-speed subcompact.
- bpyne 17y ago
  Something that I think gets overlooked as a reason why people choose automatic is that they're much nicer to drive in heavy stop-and-go traffic. Accelerate to 5 MPH for a few seconds, then stop. Repeat ad nauseum for 1.5 hours. Do it again for another 1.5 hours going home. Having to constantly go in and out of gear stinks in this scenario. With the ridiculous commuting times people have in the US, it's no wonder many drivers don't want manual. On top of it, many people do not drive 2.5 hours daily due to sheer distance; it's because of traffic causing the pattern I listed above. (Of course, the heavy traffic and long commuting time begs the question of why we don't invest more into public transportation. But, that's another clouded issue.) I've driven manual for 22 years. Even a half an hour in heavy traffic makes me wish for automatic.
  - lutorm 17y ago
    This is so true. I firmly believe that the reason automatics are so popular in the US is because of the traffic situation. Edit: And driving a manual in SF certainly tests your clutch skills... Of course, it doesn't get any easier driving a manual in stop-and-go traffic when everyone driving automatics are so much more prone to accelerate violently when traffic starts moving and then brake abruptly when it stops. And then they get annoyed when people with manuals are content to idle along in second which keeps the same average speed but periodically opens up large holes in front.
    - RyanMcGreal 17y ago
      > they get annoyed when people with manuals are content to idle along in second which keeps the same average speed but periodically opens up large holes in front. I do this (I have a game I play in highway traffic called Avoid Using the Brake), but I don't find that other motorists get annoyed. In fact I rarely even find that people cut into the big gaps - and if they do, it's usually just passing through en route to another lane.
  - pixelbath 17y ago
    +1 to that. I've driven manual for 15 years, but conceded to the wife asking (nay, demanded!) for an automatic on the last automobile purchase. It frees up one hand majority of the time and she doesn't have to think about it through turns. For me, the benefits of an automatic are trivial compared to the joy of driving a manual transmission, with one great exception: stop-and-go traffic. The process of driving a manual usually boils down to engaging the clutch partially, briefly, so that not too much fuel is wasted for each acceleration. My shins get tired after at least 20 minutes of this. You would think doing this routine every day would make it more tolerable. Surprisingly, it does not. Now that I do not have to freeway commute to work, considering a manual for the next purchase. As already stated, they are more fun to drive. On topic, I'd say this is why I do not prefer Apple's walled garden of simplicity. I don't want these choices made for me, necessarily. I like the fact that I can install any software I wish, at any time. As has been said uncountable times, the iPad is directed at certain types of users. I am not one of those types, and I doubt I would ever be. If I had disposable income (where I could afford to throw away $500 on an entertainment device), I'd buy one. My wife would love it, and I'd use it for idle surfing now and again. I might even make some interesting apps for Safari. Wouldn't want to learn Objective-C though, because what good is writing a program if your own computer won't even allow you to run it?
wtallis 17y ago
The transmission he's describing is the one that came with my 2007 Camry. (We were later able to get a firmware update that made it reasonably safe to drive.)
bluesmoon 17y ago
I'm not the author, but over the last one year I've driven 20 different cars with automatic transmissions (made by Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Pontiac, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Volkswagen and Subaru). For most of them, what the author says holds. The VW Jetta & Hyundai Elantra had good gear systems. The Chevy Cobalt was fairly good. All of the others had problems with fast acceleration and going slow downhill.
amock 17y ago
I think the comparison between automatic transmissions from 20 years ago and modern ones is a good way to see why the iPad will work well for most people. Old automatic transmissions did have problems when you wanted to accelerate quickly and at certain speeds they couldn't decide what gear to be in so they'd keep shifting. Modern transmissions are so good that only a few people notice that things aren't quite how they would like them to be and there are a lot of people who can't drive a car with a manual transmission. The iPad takes away a lot of control, but it makes choices that most people will like. Not everyone wants or needs to have more control.
- ubernostrum 17y ago
  did have problems when you wanted to accelerate quickly and at certain speeds they couldn't decide what gear to be in I've noticed the first one on pretty much every automatic I've ever driven, but mostly that's a "doctor, it hurts when I do this" sort of thing. If I turn from a residential side street (20mph) onto a larger four-lane road (45-50mph) and pound the gas pedal into the floor to speed up, then yeah, it's going to be jerky. If instead I just gently give it more gas and let it speed up a bit more gradually, it's nice and smooth. So the solution to that appears to be simply "don't drive like you're on a racetrack". Indecisive gears are a problem I haven't seen on at least the last couple cars I've owned (both Ford); they've been just fine at picking a good gear for the speed and sticking with it.
rflrob 17y ago
As someone who only knows how to drive an automatic (never had access to a manual to learn), some of the problems he's describing sound like he hasn't made the necessary adjustments in driving style that an automatic apparently requires (at least for the acceleration--I'm willing to concede that he has a point for the engine braking). This gets a bit into "intelligent" user interfaces, but I feel like I have a pretty good model of how the automatic gearbox responds to increased foot pressure, so I don't have any problem getting up to speed when changing lanes.
FraaJad 17y ago
So, when was the last time you drove the manual transmission?

RyanMcGreal 17y ago

He may be exaggerating for effect but I don't think his assessment is wrong. I drove a fairly new automatic recently and it wasn't fun. Better than 18 years ago when I last owned an automatic, but still not nearly as smoothly integrated as my Japanese five-speed subcompact.

bpyne 17y ago
Something that I think gets overlooked as a reason why people choose automatic is that they're much nicer to drive in heavy stop-and-go traffic. Accelerate to 5 MPH for a few seconds, then stop. Repeat ad nauseum for 1.5 hours. Do it again for another 1.5 hours going home. Having to constantly go in and out of gear stinks in this scenario. With the ridiculous commuting times people have in the US, it's no wonder many drivers don't want manual. On top of it, many people do not drive 2.5 hours daily due to sheer distance; it's because of traffic causing the pattern I listed above. (Of course, the heavy traffic and long commuting time begs the question of why we don't invest more into public transportation. But, that's another clouded issue.) I've driven manual for 22 years. Even a half an hour in heavy traffic makes me wish for automatic.
- lutorm 17y ago
  This is so true. I firmly believe that the reason automatics are so popular in the US is because of the traffic situation. Edit: And driving a manual in SF certainly tests your clutch skills... Of course, it doesn't get any easier driving a manual in stop-and-go traffic when everyone driving automatics are so much more prone to accelerate violently when traffic starts moving and then brake abruptly when it stops. And then they get annoyed when people with manuals are content to idle along in second which keeps the same average speed but periodically opens up large holes in front.
  - RyanMcGreal 17y ago
    > they get annoyed when people with manuals are content to idle along in second which keeps the same average speed but periodically opens up large holes in front. I do this (I have a game I play in highway traffic called Avoid Using the Brake), but I don't find that other motorists get annoyed. In fact I rarely even find that people cut into the big gaps - and if they do, it's usually just passing through en route to another lane.
- pixelbath 17y ago
  +1 to that. I've driven manual for 15 years, but conceded to the wife asking (nay, demanded!) for an automatic on the last automobile purchase. It frees up one hand majority of the time and she doesn't have to think about it through turns. For me, the benefits of an automatic are trivial compared to the joy of driving a manual transmission, with one great exception: stop-and-go traffic. The process of driving a manual usually boils down to engaging the clutch partially, briefly, so that not too much fuel is wasted for each acceleration. My shins get tired after at least 20 minutes of this. You would think doing this routine every day would make it more tolerable. Surprisingly, it does not. Now that I do not have to freeway commute to work, considering a manual for the next purchase. As already stated, they are more fun to drive. On topic, I'd say this is why I do not prefer Apple's walled garden of simplicity. I don't want these choices made for me, necessarily. I like the fact that I can install any software I wish, at any time. As has been said uncountable times, the iPad is directed at certain types of users. I am not one of those types, and I doubt I would ever be. If I had disposable income (where I could afford to throw away $500 on an entertainment device), I'd buy one. My wife would love it, and I'd use it for idle surfing now and again. I might even make some interesting apps for Safari. Wouldn't want to learn Objective-C though, because what good is writing a program if your own computer won't even allow you to run it?

wtallis 17y ago

The transmission he's describing is the one that came with my 2007 Camry. (We were later able to get a firmware update that made it reasonably safe to drive.)

bluesmoon 17y ago

I'm not the author, but over the last one year I've driven 20 different cars with automatic transmissions (made by Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Pontiac, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Volkswagen and Subaru). For most of them, what the author says holds. The VW Jetta & Hyundai Elantra had good gear systems. The Chevy Cobalt was fairly good. All of the others had problems with fast acceleration and going slow downhill.

amock 17y ago

I think the comparison between automatic transmissions from 20 years ago and modern ones is a good way to see why the iPad will work well for most people. Old automatic transmissions did have problems when you wanted to accelerate quickly and at certain speeds they couldn't decide what gear to be in so they'd keep shifting. Modern transmissions are so good that only a few people notice that things aren't quite how they would like them to be and there are a lot of people who can't drive a car with a manual transmission. The iPad takes away a lot of control, but it makes choices that most people will like. Not everyone wants or needs to have more control.

ubernostrum 17y ago
did have problems when you wanted to accelerate quickly and at certain speeds they couldn't decide what gear to be in I've noticed the first one on pretty much every automatic I've ever driven, but mostly that's a "doctor, it hurts when I do this" sort of thing. If I turn from a residential side street (20mph) onto a larger four-lane road (45-50mph) and pound the gas pedal into the floor to speed up, then yeah, it's going to be jerky. If instead I just gently give it more gas and let it speed up a bit more gradually, it's nice and smooth. So the solution to that appears to be simply "don't drive like you're on a racetrack". Indecisive gears are a problem I haven't seen on at least the last couple cars I've owned (both Ford); they've been just fine at picking a good gear for the speed and sticking with it.

rflrob 17y ago

As someone who only knows how to drive an automatic (never had access to a manual to learn), some of the problems he's describing sound like he hasn't made the necessary adjustments in driving style that an automatic apparently requires (at least for the acceleration--I'm willing to concede that he has a point for the engine braking). This gets a bit into "intelligent" user interfaces, but I feel like I have a pretty good model of how the automatic gearbox responds to increased foot pressure, so I don't have any problem getting up to speed when changing lanes.

FraaJad 17y ago

So, when was the last time you drove the manual transmission?