5 ms·

OpenBSD: Use the space freed up by sparc and zaurus to import LLVM

80 points by protomyth 10y ago

akerro 10y ago
No such message.
- protomyth 10y ago
  What the heck? Its there one minute then deletes when I refresh. Ok, an article link is: https://twitter.com/bob_beck/status/772205499949481985 https://twitter.com/bob_beck/status/772205499949481985 and http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenBSD-Adds-LLVM-To-Base http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenBSD-A... [edit: mods can you update?]
  - pygy_ 10y ago
    The mark.info link works just fine. Here are the first few lines, if it doesn't load from somewhere else: [prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] List: openbsd-cvs Subject: CVS: cvs.openbsd.org: src From: Pascal Stumpf <pascal () openbsd ! org> Date: 2016-09-03 22:47:02 Message-ID: 9a28502641f17805 () openbsd ! org [Download message RAW] CVSROOT: /cvs Module name: src Changes by: pascal@cvs.openbsd.org 2016/09/03 16:47:02 Log message: Use the space freed up by sparc and zaurus to import LLVM. ok hackroom@ Status: Vendor Tag: LLVM Release Tags: LLVM_3_8_1 N src/gnu/llvm/Makefile.common N src/gnu/llvm/llvm.spec.in N src/gnu/llvm/configure N src/gnu/llvm/LICENSE.TXT N src/gnu/llvm/README.txt N src/gnu/llvm/Makefile.config.in N src/gnu/llvm/.clang-format N src/gnu/llvm/LLVMBuild.txt ... 6200 lines later ... N src/gnu/llvm/lib/Linker/LinkModules.cpp N src/gnu/llvm/resources/windows_version_resource.rc No conflicts created by this import [prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] Configure | About | News | Add a list | Sponsored by KoreLogic
  - steveklabnik 10y ago
    From what I hear, one of two DNS servers is down, so if you get lucky, you see the page, and if you get unlucky, you don't. Google cache is here: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://marc.info/%3Fl=openbsd-cvs%26m=147294297501630%26w=2 https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:...
    - wila 10y ago
      Currently there are 3 DNS servers and no problems as far as I can see. (Ignoring the MX record anomaly) http://www.intodns.com/marc.info http://www.intodns.com/marc.info
      - notaplumber 10y ago
        It's actually not a DNS issue, the servers marc.info points to are occasionally out of synch. It would be great if someone told them to fix that..
  - akerro 10y ago
    wut it's back now.
wolf550e 10y ago
Why under src/gnu ? It's not a GNU project, it's not under GPL.
- tomjakubowski 10y ago
  Check the README :-) http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/gnu/README?rev=1.2&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/gnu/README?rev=...
  - Esau 10y ago
    Seems to me that it should be renamed.
    - notaplumber 10y ago
      CVS versions files, not directories.. and it also doesn't support renames or moves, not without some repository hackery. The historic purpose of src/gnu/ is irrelevant now, it's just a common place for "Gigantic and Nasty, but Unavoidable" software.
      - int_19h 10y ago
        So the more appropriate question is, why is someone still using CVS? In 2016? For a collaborative open source project? I understand that a certain degree of conservatism in software can be beneficial, but given just how limited CVS is, it would be kinda like writing code in ed (now I hope no-one actually does that).
        Gracana 10y ago
        Because it works for the people who are doing the work. Many outsiders have suggested that they switch, but that advice never seems to take hold.
        int_19h 10y ago
rwmj 10y ago
I have a soft spot for Zaurus as it was my first "smartphone". Compared to the smartphones of today, the UI was horrible, X11 used through a stylus with applications that were barely any different from desktop apps. However you could compile Linux programs [small ones, at least] and run them on your phone!
- rasur 10y ago
  I don't remember my Zaurus -ever- acting like a phone (it would have been cool if it had!). Everything else you write, I completely agree with.
protomyth 10y ago
So, of the list of current platforms: alpha Digital Alpha-based systems amd64 AMD64-based systems armv7 ARM-based devices, such as BeagleBone, BeagleBoard, PandaBoard ES, Cubox-i, SABRE Lite, Nitrogen6x and Wandboard hppa Hewlett-Packard Precision Architecture (PA-RISC) systems i386 Standard PC and clones based on the Intel i386 architecture and compatible processors landisk IO-DATA Landisk systems (such as USL-5P) based on the SH4 cpu loongson Loongson 2E- and 2F-based systems, such as the Lemote Fuloong and Yeeloong, Gdium Liberty, etc. luna88k Omron LUNA-88K and LUNA-88K2 workstations macppc Apple New World PowerPC-based machines, from the iMac onwards octeon Cavium Octeon-based MIPS64 systems sgi SGI MIPS-based workstations socppc Freescale PowerPC SoC-based machines sparc64 Sun UltraSPARC and Fujitsu SPARC64 systems There still seem to be a few that aren't supported by LLVM
- notaplumber 10y ago
  OpenBSD has long included multiple system compilers as required for supported platforms, at one point gcc 4.2.1, gcc 3.3.6 and gcc 2.95.3 (!) were in the tree. OpenBSD 5.4 was the last version to include gcc2 for a.out/static lib platforms like vax. After 5.5 most platforms were ported to ELF and gcc3 or gcc4 (..if not memory constrained) by Miod Vallat, even when it meant writing compiler backends. At that point gcc2 was finally removed (..along with a lot of old a.out/static architecture cruft that had accumulated). Now that LLVM/Clang is in, the potentially viable platforms (i386/amd64/armv7?) can work toward switching, while gcc4 remains for the ones that can't yet. I believe m88k is only gcc3 platforms left, but there's a very passionate guy in Japan interested in keeping his OMRON LUNA-88K and LUNA-88K2 workstations alive. This may all seem strange, but OpenBSD has always strongly been against cross-compiling beyond perhaps initial platform bring up. This means being able to compile a release and packages on the physical machine must work.
  - kev009 10y ago
    mips, ppc and sparc64 are in theory fine on llvm already, in practice there are issues but nothing that can't be worked through, especially given past work OpenBSD has shown on gcc. All 3 are commercially viable for at least a decade. m88k and sh4 are the odd ducks, and if there were a backend wow that would be painful to build llvm on natively :)
pbiggar 10y ago
What's the deal with "Use the space freed up"? Does this mean there are disk space limits to the OpenBSD distro, and that something has to leave to make space for something new? Or is it a joke I'm not getting?
- notaplumber 10y ago
  It's those line deletion/addition ratios man, it has to even out.. or preferably favor the left side. But seriously, it's often said that the tree is now full, you need to remove something unmaintained before you add may something new. ..more seriously, while it may not be noticeable by DVCS users, working directory sizes for CVS/SVN repositories can actually /decrease/ when code is removed.
- gkya 10y ago
  Guess: OpenBSD has wide embedded use, so they may want to keep the base image as small as possible.

80 points by protomyth 10y ago

akerro 10y ago

No such message.

protomyth 10y ago
What the heck? Its there one minute then deletes when I refresh. Ok, an article link is: https://twitter.com/bob_beck/status/772205499949481985 https://twitter.com/bob_beck/status/772205499949481985 and http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenBSD-Adds-LLVM-To-Base http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenBSD-A... [edit: mods can you update?]
- pygy_ 10y ago
  The mark.info link works just fine. Here are the first few lines, if it doesn't load from somewhere else: [prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] List: openbsd-cvs Subject: CVS: cvs.openbsd.org: src From: Pascal Stumpf <pascal () openbsd ! org> Date: 2016-09-03 22:47:02 Message-ID: 9a28502641f17805 () openbsd ! org [Download message RAW] CVSROOT: /cvs Module name: src Changes by: pascal@cvs.openbsd.org 2016/09/03 16:47:02 Log message: Use the space freed up by sparc and zaurus to import LLVM. ok hackroom@ Status: Vendor Tag: LLVM Release Tags: LLVM_3_8_1 N src/gnu/llvm/Makefile.common N src/gnu/llvm/llvm.spec.in N src/gnu/llvm/configure N src/gnu/llvm/LICENSE.TXT N src/gnu/llvm/README.txt N src/gnu/llvm/Makefile.config.in N src/gnu/llvm/.clang-format N src/gnu/llvm/LLVMBuild.txt ... 6200 lines later ... N src/gnu/llvm/lib/Linker/LinkModules.cpp N src/gnu/llvm/resources/windows_version_resource.rc No conflicts created by this import [prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] Configure | About | News | Add a list | Sponsored by KoreLogic
- steveklabnik 10y ago
  From what I hear, one of two DNS servers is down, so if you get lucky, you see the page, and if you get unlucky, you don't. Google cache is here: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://marc.info/%3Fl=openbsd-cvs%26m=147294297501630%26w=2 https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:...
  - wila 10y ago
    Currently there are 3 DNS servers and no problems as far as I can see. (Ignoring the MX record anomaly) http://www.intodns.com/marc.info http://www.intodns.com/marc.info
    - notaplumber 10y ago
      It's actually not a DNS issue, the servers marc.info points to are occasionally out of synch. It would be great if someone told them to fix that..
- akerro 10y ago
  wut it's back now.

wolf550e 10y ago

Why under src/gnu ? It's not a GNU project, it's not under GPL.

tomjakubowski 10y ago
Check the README :-) http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/gnu/README?rev=1.2&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/gnu/README?rev=...
- Esau 10y ago
  Seems to me that it should be renamed.
  - notaplumber 10y ago
    CVS versions files, not directories.. and it also doesn't support renames or moves, not without some repository hackery. The historic purpose of src/gnu/ is irrelevant now, it's just a common place for "Gigantic and Nasty, but Unavoidable" software.
    - int_19h 10y ago
      So the more appropriate question is, why is someone still using CVS? In 2016? For a collaborative open source project? I understand that a certain degree of conservatism in software can be beneficial, but given just how limited CVS is, it would be kinda like writing code in ed (now I hope no-one actually does that).
      - Gracana 10y ago
        Because it works for the people who are doing the work. Many outsiders have suggested that they switch, but that advice never seems to take hold.
        int_19h 10y ago

rwmj 10y ago

I have a soft spot for Zaurus as it was my first "smartphone". Compared to the smartphones of today, the UI was horrible, X11 used through a stylus with applications that were barely any different from desktop apps. However you could compile Linux programs [small ones, at least] and run them on your phone!

rasur 10y ago
I don't remember my Zaurus -ever- acting like a phone (it would have been cool if it had!). Everything else you write, I completely agree with.

protomyth 10y ago

So, of the list of current platforms: alpha Digital Alpha-based systems amd64 AMD64-based systems armv7 ARM-based devices, such as BeagleBone, BeagleBoard, PandaBoard ES, Cubox-i, SABRE Lite, Nitrogen6x and Wandboard hppa Hewlett-Packard Precision Architecture (PA-RISC) systems i386 Standard PC and clones based on the Intel i386 architecture and compatible processors landisk IO-DATA Landisk systems (such as USL-5P) based on the SH4 cpu loongson Loongson 2E- and 2F-based systems, such as the Lemote Fuloong and Yeeloong, Gdium Liberty, etc. luna88k Omron LUNA-88K and LUNA-88K2 workstations macppc Apple New World PowerPC-based machines, from the iMac onwards octeon Cavium Octeon-based MIPS64 systems sgi SGI MIPS-based workstations socppc Freescale PowerPC SoC-based machines sparc64 Sun UltraSPARC and Fujitsu SPARC64 systems There still seem to be a few that aren't supported by LLVM

notaplumber 10y ago
OpenBSD has long included multiple system compilers as required for supported platforms, at one point gcc 4.2.1, gcc 3.3.6 and gcc 2.95.3 (!) were in the tree. OpenBSD 5.4 was the last version to include gcc2 for a.out/static lib platforms like vax. After 5.5 most platforms were ported to ELF and gcc3 or gcc4 (..if not memory constrained) by Miod Vallat, even when it meant writing compiler backends. At that point gcc2 was finally removed (..along with a lot of old a.out/static architecture cruft that had accumulated). Now that LLVM/Clang is in, the potentially viable platforms (i386/amd64/armv7?) can work toward switching, while gcc4 remains for the ones that can't yet. I believe m88k is only gcc3 platforms left, but there's a very passionate guy in Japan interested in keeping his OMRON LUNA-88K and LUNA-88K2 workstations alive. This may all seem strange, but OpenBSD has always strongly been against cross-compiling beyond perhaps initial platform bring up. This means being able to compile a release and packages on the physical machine must work.
- kev009 10y ago
  mips, ppc and sparc64 are in theory fine on llvm already, in practice there are issues but nothing that can't be worked through, especially given past work OpenBSD has shown on gcc. All 3 are commercially viable for at least a decade. m88k and sh4 are the odd ducks, and if there were a backend wow that would be painful to build llvm on natively :)

pbiggar 10y ago

What's the deal with "Use the space freed up"? Does this mean there are disk space limits to the OpenBSD distro, and that something has to leave to make space for something new? Or is it a joke I'm not getting?

notaplumber 10y ago
It's those line deletion/addition ratios man, it has to even out.. or preferably favor the left side. But seriously, it's often said that the tree is now full, you need to remove something unmaintained before you add may something new. ..more seriously, while it may not be noticeable by DVCS users, working directory sizes for CVS/SVN repositories can actually /decrease/ when code is removed.
gkya 10y ago
Guess: OpenBSD has wide embedded use, so they may want to keep the base image as small as possible.