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> Imagine Tor published a policy document stating: “The Tor Project proudly advances drug-use by creating and deploying usable anonymity and privacy technologie

by ajamesm 10y ago

> Imagine Tor published a policy document stating: “The Tor Project proudly advances drug-use by creating and deploying usable anonymity and privacy technologies so people around the world can circumvent local drug laws.” "Imagine"? If you think this is hypothetical, bub, I have some bad news for you about the current perception of Tor. When I think "Tor user" I think of illicit pornography, black market drugs, and human rights activists. Those are pretty much your options. What nation is okay with the first two, but not the third? "Oh shit, we knew he was moving $2m USD in heroin, but we had no idea he was documenting human rights abuses! Apprehend him!" Please.

timmytokyo 10y ago
That may indeed be the public perception of Tor, but the project never publicly aligned itself with the distribution of child porn or illicit drugs. The author's point is that the explicit public alignment with Western notions of human rights is likely to harm the Tor project in countries where "human rights" are perceived as Western imperialism. The extent to which Tor's adoption of the human rights marquee might make a difference in the way these countries treat Tor is unclear, but it is at least a valid concern. Frankly, there are a lot of better reasons -- mostly technical -- to doubt the efficacy and long-term future of Tor. But the recent politicization and drama certainly doesn't help it.
- mikeash 10y ago
  Those countries aren't stupid. Surely they already know of Tor's applications here. Certainly China puts significant effort into blocking it, for one example I'm familiar with.
  - timmytokyo 10y ago
    I agree with you. But I was surprised that the author was able to run a Tor relay in Singapore without significant interference. That tells me that at least one authoritarian country was willing to turn a blind eye on Tor and some of its shadier uses. Will the new greater emphasis on human rights cause Singapore's authorities to give it greater scrutiny? Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly won't help.
    - romanpoet 10y ago
      You can run relays in Singapore. But you'll first want to leave your cellphone number with the police so they give you a call before visiting you at home. After the pivot there remain two Singapore relays run by brave operators. https://atlas.torproject.org/#search/SG https://atlas.torproject.org/#search/SG > Will the new greater emphasis on human rights cause Singapore's authorities to give it greater scrutiny? Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly won't help. Yep. That's the argument. Their pivot is not the end of the world, but it definitely hurts.
      - romanpoet 10y ago
        relays: * https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/46022AFBB0B1A771EE3CB35AD337543A63210467 https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/46022AFBB0B1A771EE3CB3... * https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/AD00FAC2AB97E310ECAB25E6A154FAEED345922E https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/AD00FAC2AB97E310ECAB25...
    - angry_octet 10y ago
      Why wouldn't they want a relay? They are not 'turning a blind eye'. Every byte in and out is analysed, and the characteristics of every session gathered.

by ajamesm 10y ago

timmytokyo 10y ago

That may indeed be the public perception of Tor, but the project never publicly aligned itself with the distribution of child porn or illicit drugs. The author's point is that the explicit public alignment with Western notions of human rights is likely to harm the Tor project in countries where "human rights" are perceived as Western imperialism. The extent to which Tor's adoption of the human rights marquee might make a difference in the way these countries treat Tor is unclear, but it is at least a valid concern. Frankly, there are a lot of better reasons -- mostly technical -- to doubt the efficacy and long-term future of Tor. But the recent politicization and drama certainly doesn't help it.

mikeash 10y ago
Those countries aren't stupid. Surely they already know of Tor's applications here. Certainly China puts significant effort into blocking it, for one example I'm familiar with.
- timmytokyo 10y ago
  I agree with you. But I was surprised that the author was able to run a Tor relay in Singapore without significant interference. That tells me that at least one authoritarian country was willing to turn a blind eye on Tor and some of its shadier uses. Will the new greater emphasis on human rights cause Singapore's authorities to give it greater scrutiny? Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly won't help.
  - romanpoet 10y ago
    You can run relays in Singapore. But you'll first want to leave your cellphone number with the police so they give you a call before visiting you at home. After the pivot there remain two Singapore relays run by brave operators. https://atlas.torproject.org/#search/SG https://atlas.torproject.org/#search/SG > Will the new greater emphasis on human rights cause Singapore's authorities to give it greater scrutiny? Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly won't help. Yep. That's the argument. Their pivot is not the end of the world, but it definitely hurts.
    - romanpoet 10y ago
      relays: * https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/46022AFBB0B1A771EE3CB35AD337543A63210467 https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/46022AFBB0B1A771EE3CB3... * https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/AD00FAC2AB97E310ECAB25E6A154FAEED345922E https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/AD00FAC2AB97E310ECAB25...
  - angry_octet 10y ago
    Why wouldn't they want a relay? They are not 'turning a blind eye'. Every byte in and out is analysed, and the characteristics of every session gathered.