4 ms·

I would recommend you to research this a bit more, if you decide to have a children. Problem are not 'strict laws', but the way there are applied. One single ac

by jkot 10y ago

I would recommend you to research this a bit more, if you decide to have a children. Problem are not 'strict laws', but the way there are applied. One single accusation can remove your children, you have no right to even talk to a lawyer and maybe in 6 years you will get some sort of appeal. Sources are all over internet, Norway is only country with this problem, just google it.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago
The thing is, I've not seen it. I've known a few immigrants, one from Poland, that has had them called. One had observation and classes, the other nothing. I'm not saying that any of it is perfect, as it isn't that anywhere, but what you are saying isn't either.
- jkot 10y ago
  I think we are on a different planets. I just told you parent is not even allowed to talk to a lawyer, if such thing happens and escalates.
  - Broken_Hippo 10y ago
    Dude, there are lawyers that specialize in this. If it wasn't allowed, they wouldn't be able to advertise and specialise in that field. Here is an example, in norwegian so you might have to use translate: http://osloadvokatene.no/privat/familie-arv-skifte/barn/6-gode-rad-nar-barnevernet-lager-en-undersokelsessak http://osloadvokatene.no/privat/familie-arv-skifte/barn/6-go...
    - jkot 10y ago
      Of course it is not forbidden, but is not in 'best interest of child'. It will take a bit longer if lawyer is involved and reduces your chances. Here is a czech case, women loses parental rights because she published her case. She still works in Norway kindergarten... She has long history with lawyers, her original lawyer was removed from case (against her will), second lawyer was not even allowed on hearing... http://zpravy.idnes.cz/norsko-michalakova-soud-0w5-/domaci.aspx?c=A160701_071826_domaci_kha http://zpravy.idnes.cz/norsko-michalakova-soud-0w5-/domaci.a... Anyway, I do not live in norway, good luck.
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
The stuff you are citing, btw, is basically an accepted conspiracy theory as well. The problem is that it really isn't the truth as you are stating it.
- jkot 10y ago
  Yeah, Czech, Slovak, Lithuanian governments all got diplomatically involved for conspiracy theory. http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-norway-accused-of-unfairly-taking-away-immigrant-children-2015-8?IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-norway-accused-of-unfairly...
  - Broken_Hippo 10y ago
    And some politicians in the US deny evolution and publicly deny climate change.
- DanBC 10y ago
  You don't seem to be aware of it, but the Norwegian model is frequently criticised as being too severe. There's probably some court case about to happen to protect the rights of children because the Norwegian model is too severe. Here's one example of international concern about the severity of the system: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36026458 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36026458 Those parents hit their children, and so the parents need punishment for that bit of abuse, and the children need to be protected, but that protection should not be removal from the family because that's a significant interference with the rights of the child.
  - Broken_Hippo 10y ago
    I am actually aware of the other side of it as well. I generally tend to agree with some of the severity, especially in abuse cases. I'd rather things swing on the side of keeping children safe than the opposite, especially in abuse cases. The right they are upholding is that children should live in a violence free household. That law is pretty strict. There is good and bad with the methods, and that tends to be the case anywhere. I do think with cultural differences, perhaps not enough upfront education is done - and cultural differences are part of the issue. It is difficult for parents to figure out what is and isn't allowed. However, I think the current EU/Schengen Area free movement policies probably hinder such a thing and I'm not sure how to educate a continent of people about such things. I also realize that much like the states, most of the folks that speak out have been in some sort of trouble with them. It wasn't much different in the states - child protective services was invisible until someone had an issue with them. In general, neither place comments on ongoing cases in the protection of children. The folks I've met that have dealt with them: One person simply had a meeting or two and a follow up, as there wasn't much to say about it. The other was having meetings in their house weekly for a bit plus some parenting classes. Both were immigrants. I know the system isn't always harsh. And then there is the entire matter of ... well, honestly, most folks expect others to follow the laws of the country they are in. Can't very well have a different system for immigrants than citizens.

by jkot 10y ago

Broken_Hippo 10y ago

The thing is, I've not seen it. I've known a few immigrants, one from Poland, that has had them called. One had observation and classes, the other nothing. I'm not saying that any of it is perfect, as it isn't that anywhere, but what you are saying isn't either.

jkot 10y ago
I think we are on a different planets. I just told you parent is not even allowed to talk to a lawyer, if such thing happens and escalates.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  Dude, there are lawyers that specialize in this. If it wasn't allowed, they wouldn't be able to advertise and specialise in that field. Here is an example, in norwegian so you might have to use translate: http://osloadvokatene.no/privat/familie-arv-skifte/barn/6-gode-rad-nar-barnevernet-lager-en-undersokelsessak http://osloadvokatene.no/privat/familie-arv-skifte/barn/6-go...
  - jkot 10y ago
    Of course it is not forbidden, but is not in 'best interest of child'. It will take a bit longer if lawyer is involved and reduces your chances. Here is a czech case, women loses parental rights because she published her case. She still works in Norway kindergarten... She has long history with lawyers, her original lawyer was removed from case (against her will), second lawyer was not even allowed on hearing... http://zpravy.idnes.cz/norsko-michalakova-soud-0w5-/domaci.aspx?c=A160701_071826_domaci_kha http://zpravy.idnes.cz/norsko-michalakova-soud-0w5-/domaci.a... Anyway, I do not live in norway, good luck.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago

The stuff you are citing, btw, is basically an accepted conspiracy theory as well. The problem is that it really isn't the truth as you are stating it.

jkot 10y ago
Yeah, Czech, Slovak, Lithuanian governments all got diplomatically involved for conspiracy theory. http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-norway-accused-of-unfairly-taking-away-immigrant-children-2015-8?IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-norway-accused-of-unfairly...
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  And some politicians in the US deny evolution and publicly deny climate change.
DanBC 10y ago
You don't seem to be aware of it, but the Norwegian model is frequently criticised as being too severe. There's probably some court case about to happen to protect the rights of children because the Norwegian model is too severe. Here's one example of international concern about the severity of the system: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36026458 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36026458 Those parents hit their children, and so the parents need punishment for that bit of abuse, and the children need to be protected, but that protection should not be removal from the family because that's a significant interference with the rights of the child.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  I am actually aware of the other side of it as well. I generally tend to agree with some of the severity, especially in abuse cases. I'd rather things swing on the side of keeping children safe than the opposite, especially in abuse cases. The right they are upholding is that children should live in a violence free household. That law is pretty strict. There is good and bad with the methods, and that tends to be the case anywhere. I do think with cultural differences, perhaps not enough upfront education is done - and cultural differences are part of the issue. It is difficult for parents to figure out what is and isn't allowed. However, I think the current EU/Schengen Area free movement policies probably hinder such a thing and I'm not sure how to educate a continent of people about such things. I also realize that much like the states, most of the folks that speak out have been in some sort of trouble with them. It wasn't much different in the states - child protective services was invisible until someone had an issue with them. In general, neither place comments on ongoing cases in the protection of children. The folks I've met that have dealt with them: One person simply had a meeting or two and a follow up, as there wasn't much to say about it. The other was having meetings in their house weekly for a bit plus some parenting classes. Both were immigrants. I know the system isn't always harsh. And then there is the entire matter of ... well, honestly, most folks expect others to follow the laws of the country they are in. Can't very well have a different system for immigrants than citizens.