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The issue with immigration is not xenophobia but economic as Economist Branko Milanovic (and perhaps others) have been pointing out since 2012. Milanovic's now

The issue with immigration is not xenophobia but economic as Economist Branko Milanovic (and perhaps others) have been pointing out since 2012. Milanovic's now famous "Elephant Curve" shows that the working or middle class in developed countries have seen no wage growth in 20 years. Part of that effect is from exporting jobs to China, Mexico (for US), Eastern Europe (for Europe) and part of that is from importing unskilled/low skilled labor. 20 years ago Britain had 900,000 immigrants. Today they have 3.3 million. The British government promised to limit EU immigration to 100,000 last year but broke their promise: it exceeded 300,000. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-27/get-ready-to-see-this-globalization-elephant-chart-over-and-over-again http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-27/get-ready-... These low-skilled immigrants compete for jobs in the UK and lower wage growth. Not those of professionals but of the working class/middle class. In the US, in 1970 we had 9.6 million immigrants (less than 5% of the population) and 2013 41.3 million (about 14% of the population). That does not include the 11 million immigrants in the US illegally. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/09/28/chapter-5-u-s-foreign-born-population-trends/ http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/09/28/chapter-5-u-s-foreign-... As in the case of Britain, the working class in the US is suffering from the mostly low-educated immigrants that compete for jobs and drive down wage rates. The 11 million immigrants in the country illegally take jobs with illegal working conditions and illegally low wages since they can't complain. So, the issue is economic and not xenophobic. The real issue of BrExit and the rise of Trump is because the political and media elites in both countries (and this includes the Democrats as well as Republicans) have ignored the economic concerns of the working class.

rwmj 10y ago
If it wasn't freedom of movement, it would be technological change (how many people will self-driving lorries put out of work?). The real problem is no one has thought about the long term where a lot of people either won't be able to work or won't need to work. In the UK we still have politicians who genuinely think a less than minimum wage job packing training shoes in a warehouse is morally better than someone being unemployed.
yummyfajitas 10y ago
In the US the reason the middle class has had no wage growth is NOT because immigrants have hindered wage growth. The reason is simply because immigrants lower the averages simply by being included in statistics. In the US, most people with American parents have higher income than their parents did (in their 30's). This is true for all quintiles except maybe the top 20%. http://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedfiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/reports/economic_mobility/pursuingamericandreampdf.pdf http://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedfiles/wwwpew... Figure 1 http://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/alfresco/publication-pdfs/2000871-What-Would-Substantially-Increased-Mobility-from-Poverty-Look-Like.pdf http://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/alfresco/publicatio... Figure 5 Yet when we look at cross sectional statistics (rather than longitudinal ones), income (though not compensation) has remained flat. The way to square these two facts together is that George Jr. has a higher income at 30 than George Sr. did, but the average of George Jr. and Jose Jr. has lower income at 30 than George Sr. did. Jose Sr. is excluded from the cross-sectional statistics since he lived in Mexico in his 30's.
- davidf18 10y ago
  > In the US the reason the middle class has had no wage growth is NOT because immigrants have hindered wage growth. The reason is simply because immigrants lower the averages simply by existing. It is probably for both reasons, but certainly immigrants that have low education compete with Americans who have low education for jobs and they do drive down wage growth. This is not my opinion. It is economics. The issue is that proportion of both US and UK populations that are immigrants. Since 1970 in the US we have gone from 1 in 20 to 1 in 6 or 7 who are immigrants, most who are low-skilled. It would have been wiser and more fair to the American working class to have kept the proportion of 1 in 20.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    But the wages of Americans with American parents has risen, not fallen. Wages for Americans with American parents in the lowest quintile of income have risen the most - that seems like exactly the opposite of what your theory predicts! Since immigrants are consumers as well as producers, it's unclear that they drive down wages. Similarly it's unclear that Americans having children drives wages down. I'm not sure what "fair" means in your comment, or why you only consider "fair to the American working class" rather than "fair to humans". Could you clarify?
NetStrikeForce 10y ago
That's a very long comment to fail to justify it's not xenophobia. It is. Leave got better results in places with less immigration, i.e. in places where they don't have foreign neighbours but fear having them. Moreso, restricting immigration will actually make economy worse and take unskilled jobs out of the country (to China, India, etc), thus screwing even more over the working class. If it was the economy, people would favour immigration (young people paying taxes, keeping jobs around, not using the NHS, etc) and complain about other stuff (company tax loopholes anyone?), but they complained about immigration and that's what they fear. It is xenophobia, but of course no one fears Swiss, Japanese or Swede immigrants because they're rich. I don't see many problems in UK for Saudi princes or Russian magnates that exploit and slave people, again because they're rich. Racism is basically now fear of the poor (hence all the negativity about asylum seekers and other refugees). People, including me of course, are assholes.
- davidf18 10y ago
  This Guardian article states its economics and not Xenophobia. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/07/donald-trump-why-americans-support https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/07/donald... Believe what you want to believe.

rwmj 10y ago

If it wasn't freedom of movement, it would be technological change (how many people will self-driving lorries put out of work?). The real problem is no one has thought about the long term where a lot of people either won't be able to work or won't need to work. In the UK we still have politicians who genuinely think a less than minimum wage job packing training shoes in a warehouse is morally better than someone being unemployed.

yummyfajitas 10y ago

In the US the reason the middle class has had no wage growth is NOT because immigrants have hindered wage growth. The reason is simply because immigrants lower the averages simply by being included in statistics. In the US, most people with American parents have higher income than their parents did (in their 30's). This is true for all quintiles except maybe the top 20%. http://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedfiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/reports/economic_mobility/pursuingamericandreampdf.pdf http://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedfiles/wwwpew... Figure 1 http://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/alfresco/publication-pdfs/2000871-What-Would-Substantially-Increased-Mobility-from-Poverty-Look-Like.pdf http://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/alfresco/publicatio... Figure 5 Yet when we look at cross sectional statistics (rather than longitudinal ones), income (though not compensation) has remained flat. The way to square these two facts together is that George Jr. has a higher income at 30 than George Sr. did, but the average of George Jr. and Jose Jr. has lower income at 30 than George Sr. did. Jose Sr. is excluded from the cross-sectional statistics since he lived in Mexico in his 30's.

davidf18 10y ago
> In the US the reason the middle class has had no wage growth is NOT because immigrants have hindered wage growth. The reason is simply because immigrants lower the averages simply by existing. It is probably for both reasons, but certainly immigrants that have low education compete with Americans who have low education for jobs and they do drive down wage growth. This is not my opinion. It is economics. The issue is that proportion of both US and UK populations that are immigrants. Since 1970 in the US we have gone from 1 in 20 to 1 in 6 or 7 who are immigrants, most who are low-skilled. It would have been wiser and more fair to the American working class to have kept the proportion of 1 in 20.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  But the wages of Americans with American parents has risen, not fallen. Wages for Americans with American parents in the lowest quintile of income have risen the most - that seems like exactly the opposite of what your theory predicts! Since immigrants are consumers as well as producers, it's unclear that they drive down wages. Similarly it's unclear that Americans having children drives wages down. I'm not sure what "fair" means in your comment, or why you only consider "fair to the American working class" rather than "fair to humans". Could you clarify?

NetStrikeForce 10y ago

That's a very long comment to fail to justify it's not xenophobia. It is. Leave got better results in places with less immigration, i.e. in places where they don't have foreign neighbours but fear having them. Moreso, restricting immigration will actually make economy worse and take unskilled jobs out of the country (to China, India, etc), thus screwing even more over the working class. If it was the economy, people would favour immigration (young people paying taxes, keeping jobs around, not using the NHS, etc) and complain about other stuff (company tax loopholes anyone?), but they complained about immigration and that's what they fear. It is xenophobia, but of course no one fears Swiss, Japanese or Swede immigrants because they're rich. I don't see many problems in UK for Saudi princes or Russian magnates that exploit and slave people, again because they're rich. Racism is basically now fear of the poor (hence all the negativity about asylum seekers and other refugees). People, including me of course, are assholes.

davidf18 10y ago
This Guardian article states its economics and not Xenophobia. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/07/donald-trump-why-americans-support https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/07/donald... Believe what you want to believe.