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You are not alone. This is one of those problems that we seemingly can't solve, mostly because there is no business in it. Ask anyone if they have a problem sha

by jwr 10y ago

You are not alone. This is one of those problems that we seemingly can't solve, mostly because there is no business in it. Ask anyone if they have a problem sharing files, and most people will say no (witness the responses in this thread), even though you are perfectly correct that file sharing is a complete and utter mess. And when buying a new phone, practically no one will consider "easy file sharing" as a feature worth paying for. Apple was traditonally better at this sort of thing ("just works"), but a) it doesn't actually "just work", because their software quality is not up to par, and b) the lack of interoperability means this is only useful if you live in an Apple-only world. In general, I'd say it will stay like this. Unfortunately. Other similar examples: E-mail (yes, SMTP and E-mail clients, it all sucks badly, and we can't agree on how to improve it) and instant messaging.

wwwdonohue 10y ago
just because people don't recognize the problem doesn't mean they don't feel it, or wouldn't want a solution. Drew Houston's talked before about how one of the major hurdles for Dropbox early on was simply convincing people that file sharing was a problem. times have changed and now there's a new kind of "unrecognized problem" to be solved re: filesharing.
wpietri 10y ago
Great point. Having there be a business is important. It's one of those things that seems simple (move 1 file 2 inches) but is really complex, with a lot of possible mechanisms, protocols, OSes, devices, and edge cases. When the Dropbox people were looking for money, VCs would say, "But there are already plenty of ways to keep files in sync." They'd say, "Do you use any of them regularly?" The answer was always no. There was a giant gap that nobody had filled. And they started with an easier problem, which is one person with multiple devices who wants one folder to be in two places. No features, just a folder that's always the same. (And they started with just desktop OSes.) Transferring files seamlessly between devices owned by different people on demand is much harder. Especially given how mobile OSes have deemphasized the notion of "file" altogether. So yes, I don't expect a solution either.
- nerdponx 10y ago
  > mobile OSes have deemphasized the notion of "file" altogether. This to me hits on the real problem. Filesharing is easy when all files are strings of ones and zeros, to be freely interpreted by programs and stored in a generic filesystem. When your operating system treats files as atomic things that can only be managed by a specific program baked into the OS, filesharing becomes much more difficult. This is a classic Apple dark pattern that spread to the rest of the industry and is now a poison that can't be easily purged.
  - ACS_Solver 10y ago
    This is perhaps my least favorite thing about Apple's software concept, but at the same time I have to admit they've made it simple for the masses, and it works. The iOS file concept seems to be closer to how people without knowledge of computers perceive things, and matches what I saw in computer learners 20 years ago. People would think their documents were gone if they couldn't launch Word, or were confused by getting a file on a floppy that they couldn't open because they didn't have the right program installed. Technically, you have a generic filesystem, and individual programs can load files from that, there's no direct relationship between the files and programs. But in the mind of a typical non-tech user, files are something that belong to a program.
    - wpietri 10y ago
      Yeah, I think it's a losing game to ask users to do more work because we technical people think it better or more correct.
grok2 10y ago
I thought Apple was the one company pretty good at it because of their support for Bluetooth -- recently I was able to download pictures off of one of the old flip-phones (a really old phone) to my Macbook Air just using Bluetooth connectivity. I think the first scenario of the OP could've been accomplished using Bluetooth connectivity.

by jwr 10y ago

wwwdonohue 10y ago

just because people don't recognize the problem doesn't mean they don't feel it, or wouldn't want a solution. Drew Houston's talked before about how one of the major hurdles for Dropbox early on was simply convincing people that file sharing was a problem. times have changed and now there's a new kind of "unrecognized problem" to be solved re: filesharing.

wpietri 10y ago

Great point. Having there be a business is important. It's one of those things that seems simple (move 1 file 2 inches) but is really complex, with a lot of possible mechanisms, protocols, OSes, devices, and edge cases. When the Dropbox people were looking for money, VCs would say, "But there are already plenty of ways to keep files in sync." They'd say, "Do you use any of them regularly?" The answer was always no. There was a giant gap that nobody had filled. And they started with an easier problem, which is one person with multiple devices who wants one folder to be in two places. No features, just a folder that's always the same. (And they started with just desktop OSes.) Transferring files seamlessly between devices owned by different people on demand is much harder. Especially given how mobile OSes have deemphasized the notion of "file" altogether. So yes, I don't expect a solution either.

nerdponx 10y ago
> mobile OSes have deemphasized the notion of "file" altogether. This to me hits on the real problem. Filesharing is easy when all files are strings of ones and zeros, to be freely interpreted by programs and stored in a generic filesystem. When your operating system treats files as atomic things that can only be managed by a specific program baked into the OS, filesharing becomes much more difficult. This is a classic Apple dark pattern that spread to the rest of the industry and is now a poison that can't be easily purged.
- ACS_Solver 10y ago
  This is perhaps my least favorite thing about Apple's software concept, but at the same time I have to admit they've made it simple for the masses, and it works. The iOS file concept seems to be closer to how people without knowledge of computers perceive things, and matches what I saw in computer learners 20 years ago. People would think their documents were gone if they couldn't launch Word, or were confused by getting a file on a floppy that they couldn't open because they didn't have the right program installed. Technically, you have a generic filesystem, and individual programs can load files from that, there's no direct relationship between the files and programs. But in the mind of a typical non-tech user, files are something that belong to a program.
  - wpietri 10y ago
    Yeah, I think it's a losing game to ask users to do more work because we technical people think it better or more correct.

grok2 10y ago

I thought Apple was the one company pretty good at it because of their support for Bluetooth -- recently I was able to download pictures off of one of the old flip-phones (a really old phone) to my Macbook Air just using Bluetooth connectivity. I think the first scenario of the OP could've been accomplished using Bluetooth connectivity.