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"With regard to unskilled workers, Japanese businesses rely on inexpensive labour from Eastern Europe in the manufacturing and agricultural industries in the UK

by alva 10y ago

"With regard to unskilled workers, Japanese businesses rely on inexpensive labour from Eastern Europe in the manufacturing and agricultural industries in the UK" What a hypocritical demand from the Japanese. They have one of the strictest set of immigration policies in the world, largely for the sake of national homogeneity at the expensive of their economy. They believe that is a worthwhile sacrifice for them, why not us?

pliny 10y ago
I don't see the hypocrisy here, they're not taking a principled stand in favour of immigration by threatening to boycott the UK if they stop allowing immigrants, they're warning the UK that their business there may be unprofitable if they no longer have access to cheap labour.
- alva 10y ago
  The warning itself, over concerns that their investments will suffer is totally fair. The hypocrisy however as I see it is that Japan is asking us to make a specific sacrifice for economic growth, that it absolutely will not do itself on principle.
  - anonymousDan 10y ago
    I think the point is that some brexiteers are going around in lala land claiming that there will be negligible economic consequences to leaving the free trade zone.
kalleboo 10y ago
> They have one of the strictest set of immigration policies in the world [citation needed] My experience is that Japan has very permissive immigration for skilled labor (anyone with a college degree) or social ties (marriage). Far more so than e.g. the USA or Europe. They just don't have a green card lottery for unskilled labor (like the US) or open borders for refugees (like Europe).
- GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
  Really? It's well known that Japan is not really welcoming to immigrants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan#Immigrant_integration_into_Japanese_society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan#Immigrant...
  - kalleboo 10y ago
    I'm not sure what your link is trying to say. Naturalisation in Japan requires giving up your existing passport, and the only privilege it gives you is voting in elections. It also says a slim majority supports increased immigration (while a slim majority in the UK supports reduced immigration).
- alva 10y ago
  The numbers speak for themselves http://www.stat.go.jp/english/data/nenkan/1431-02.htm http://www.stat.go.jp/english/data/nenkan/1431-02.htm Section 2-14 http://www.dir.co.jp/english/research/report/others/20150529_009776.pdf http://www.dir.co.jp/english/research/report/others/20150529... But you are right, I should have said first-world countries, I am not familiar with developing countries policies. Compared to the US and Europe, Japan's immigration policy is far stricter (and sensible as you state for skilled labour) and a significant driver is a desire for homogeneity. A large number of those in support of Brexit wish to have a similar approach. Very supportive of high-skilled immigration, against extremely high low-skilled immigration.
  - kalleboo 10y ago
    The numbers don't tell the whole story - Japan also has large non-acceptance-related barriers to immigration, including the massive language barrier, low wages and a poor working environment for skilled workers compared to western companies, and a weak welfare system. Immigration system aside, Japan just isn't an attractive country to move to for economic considerations. edit: as for anecdotes, I know people who have moved to the EU and US through marriage, and it was a multi-year and/or multi-thousand dollar ordeal. I know people who moved to the US though work and it was the same thing (working in a EU office for a year to satisfy some random internal-transfer criteria). Meanwhile getting a visa in Japan is a $30 fee for ID card issuance and everyone I know here has gotten visas approved in days (marriage visa, not even an interview required) to months (work visas).
threatofrain 10y ago
I don't see why hypocrisy really matters in something as elevated and high-stakes as national policy. Rectifying the moral shame of hypocrisy should be like item #300 on a very long list of priorities. Japan is making a cold policy argument about factors to business decisions, an argument for the factors that made the UK attractive. Hypocrisy is a distraction focused on who is saying it rather than what is being said. If another country non-hypocritically repeated the same argument, does it make a difference? To you it does.
- NetStrikeForce 10y ago
  Funnily enough, the hypocrisy lies in saying cheap labour is bad, but 0.005% company tax is good :-)

by alva 10y ago

pliny 10y ago

I don't see the hypocrisy here, they're not taking a principled stand in favour of immigration by threatening to boycott the UK if they stop allowing immigrants, they're warning the UK that their business there may be unprofitable if they no longer have access to cheap labour.

alva 10y ago
The warning itself, over concerns that their investments will suffer is totally fair. The hypocrisy however as I see it is that Japan is asking us to make a specific sacrifice for economic growth, that it absolutely will not do itself on principle.
- anonymousDan 10y ago
  I think the point is that some brexiteers are going around in lala land claiming that there will be negligible economic consequences to leaving the free trade zone.

kalleboo 10y ago

> They have one of the strictest set of immigration policies in the world [citation needed] My experience is that Japan has very permissive immigration for skilled labor (anyone with a college degree) or social ties (marriage). Far more so than e.g. the USA or Europe. They just don't have a green card lottery for unskilled labor (like the US) or open borders for refugees (like Europe).

GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
Really? It's well known that Japan is not really welcoming to immigrants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan#Immigrant_integration_into_Japanese_society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Japan#Immigrant...
- kalleboo 10y ago
  I'm not sure what your link is trying to say. Naturalisation in Japan requires giving up your existing passport, and the only privilege it gives you is voting in elections. It also says a slim majority supports increased immigration (while a slim majority in the UK supports reduced immigration).
alva 10y ago
The numbers speak for themselves http://www.stat.go.jp/english/data/nenkan/1431-02.htm http://www.stat.go.jp/english/data/nenkan/1431-02.htm Section 2-14 http://www.dir.co.jp/english/research/report/others/20150529_009776.pdf http://www.dir.co.jp/english/research/report/others/20150529... But you are right, I should have said first-world countries, I am not familiar with developing countries policies. Compared to the US and Europe, Japan's immigration policy is far stricter (and sensible as you state for skilled labour) and a significant driver is a desire for homogeneity. A large number of those in support of Brexit wish to have a similar approach. Very supportive of high-skilled immigration, against extremely high low-skilled immigration.
- kalleboo 10y ago
  The numbers don't tell the whole story - Japan also has large non-acceptance-related barriers to immigration, including the massive language barrier, low wages and a poor working environment for skilled workers compared to western companies, and a weak welfare system. Immigration system aside, Japan just isn't an attractive country to move to for economic considerations. edit: as for anecdotes, I know people who have moved to the EU and US through marriage, and it was a multi-year and/or multi-thousand dollar ordeal. I know people who moved to the US though work and it was the same thing (working in a EU office for a year to satisfy some random internal-transfer criteria). Meanwhile getting a visa in Japan is a $30 fee for ID card issuance and everyone I know here has gotten visas approved in days (marriage visa, not even an interview required) to months (work visas).

threatofrain 10y ago

I don't see why hypocrisy really matters in something as elevated and high-stakes as national policy. Rectifying the moral shame of hypocrisy should be like item #300 on a very long list of priorities. Japan is making a cold policy argument about factors to business decisions, an argument for the factors that made the UK attractive. Hypocrisy is a distraction focused on who is saying it rather than what is being said. If another country non-hypocritically repeated the same argument, does it make a difference? To you it does.

NetStrikeForce 10y ago
Funnily enough, the hypocrisy lies in saying cheap labour is bad, but 0.005% company tax is good :-)