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The knuckle-draggers who voted to leave the EU won't care about threats like this - they'll just use hate speech to dismiss it. Downvote me by all means :)

martinko 10y ago
The bottom line is that it would be economic suicide to leave the single market, and both sides of the debate know this. If they do leave the EU it will mainly be a proforma move and their single market status will be affected less, if at all.
ZenoArrow 10y ago
I won't downvote you but I will question your choice of terms. You do realise there were rational arguments for wanting to leave the EU? It wasn't all about racism.
- michaelbuddy 10y ago
  It wasn't about 'racism' at all. That is just what remainers wanted to get out as their media message because it's a typical leftist strategy.
  - TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
    It was about racism in the sense of blaming immigrants for the UK's own political failures. The UK has some of the worst infrastructure, least effective education, most unaffordable housing, least secure jobs, and least effective and generous social spending of any other major EU economy. This is not the fault of the EU, or of immigrants - it's the fault of government policy in the UK. Part of that policy has been to encourage immigration to keep wages down for UK nationals. The people who run this scam are the same as the people who play the race card politically. They benefit from both sides - cheap labour, and political control of the narrative. It's immensely cynical, but depressingly effective.
    - alva 10y ago
      "The UK has some of the worst infrastructure, least effective education, most unaffordable housing, least secure jobs.." Which is why we are one of the most popular work and living destinations for the most educated people in Europe? "and least effective and generous social spending of any other major EU economy..." Which is why we are one of the most sought out destinations for the recent migrant wave?
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
      > "It was about racism in the sense of blaming immigrants for the UK's own political failures." It really wasn't. The mass media set the topics for discussion around the Brexit debates, with speculation around immigration and the economy being the two central pillars, but the topics of debate should have been much broader than that. Let's look at TTIP for one example. How much involvement have MEPs had in influencing the contents of the TTIP deals? What does this say about the level of democracy in the EU?
open-source-ux 10y ago
I voted remain, but completely agree. The Brexit politicians and the nasty Brexit-supporting right wing press in the UK will completely spin the situation as proof of how vindictive and mean everyone is for not giving into the UK's demands. It's embarrassing. By the way, Sunderland (in the North East of England), home to Nissan who employ over 6000 people, voted 61% in favour of Brexit. A key reason Nissan expanded operations in the UK was for access to the European market. One has to wonder what people in Sunderland were thinking when they voted. "UK officials reacted with astonishment that Japan had chosen to publish this list of concerns and demands." The fact that UK officials reacted with astonishment shows how so many Brexiters live in a fantasy land where they think Brexit is simply a matter of picking-and-choosing all the rules and regulations that suit them.
- barrkel 10y ago
  Brexit was a coalition between two completely different groups of people: anti-globalization (whether they know it or not) working class getting marginalized by global shifts in the world economy, the service-orientation of the UK economy, technological change that's reshaping everything everywhere; and pro-globalization free traders who want to be able to undercut EU rules to compete. The interests of these two groups are not aligned. Remain didn't point this out. The reason they weren't able to point it out was because Brexit was sold as a change to the status quo: thus anyone unhappy with the current situation could project whatever they liked as the alternative. Cameron will be tough to beat as the worst PM in the 21st century.
- Amezarak 10y ago
  > A key reason Nissan expanded operations in the UK was for access to the European market. One has to wonder what people in Sunderland were thinking when they voted. I can't read their minds any more than you can, but maybe they prioritize sovereignty or their idea of the UK over money. It sometimes disturbs me how everything has to be reduced to an economic decision. You need money to live, sure, but there's more to life than money. And besides that, what I'm reading from Krugman and other economists is that the economic consequences being published in the press are dramatically overblown.
sctb 10y ago
> knuckle-draggers Such insults are definitely not OK on Hacker News. Please comment civilly and substantively or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

martinko 10y ago

The bottom line is that it would be economic suicide to leave the single market, and both sides of the debate know this. If they do leave the EU it will mainly be a proforma move and their single market status will be affected less, if at all.

ZenoArrow 10y ago

I won't downvote you but I will question your choice of terms. You do realise there were rational arguments for wanting to leave the EU? It wasn't all about racism.

michaelbuddy 10y ago
It wasn't about 'racism' at all. That is just what remainers wanted to get out as their media message because it's a typical leftist strategy.
- TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
  It was about racism in the sense of blaming immigrants for the UK's own political failures. The UK has some of the worst infrastructure, least effective education, most unaffordable housing, least secure jobs, and least effective and generous social spending of any other major EU economy. This is not the fault of the EU, or of immigrants - it's the fault of government policy in the UK. Part of that policy has been to encourage immigration to keep wages down for UK nationals. The people who run this scam are the same as the people who play the race card politically. They benefit from both sides - cheap labour, and political control of the narrative. It's immensely cynical, but depressingly effective.
  - alva 10y ago
    "The UK has some of the worst infrastructure, least effective education, most unaffordable housing, least secure jobs.." Which is why we are one of the most popular work and living destinations for the most educated people in Europe? "and least effective and generous social spending of any other major EU economy..." Which is why we are one of the most sought out destinations for the recent migrant wave?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    > "It was about racism in the sense of blaming immigrants for the UK's own political failures." It really wasn't. The mass media set the topics for discussion around the Brexit debates, with speculation around immigration and the economy being the two central pillars, but the topics of debate should have been much broader than that. Let's look at TTIP for one example. How much involvement have MEPs had in influencing the contents of the TTIP deals? What does this say about the level of democracy in the EU?

open-source-ux 10y ago

I voted remain, but completely agree. The Brexit politicians and the nasty Brexit-supporting right wing press in the UK will completely spin the situation as proof of how vindictive and mean everyone is for not giving into the UK's demands. It's embarrassing. By the way, Sunderland (in the North East of England), home to Nissan who employ over 6000 people, voted 61% in favour of Brexit. A key reason Nissan expanded operations in the UK was for access to the European market. One has to wonder what people in Sunderland were thinking when they voted. "UK officials reacted with astonishment that Japan had chosen to publish this list of concerns and demands." The fact that UK officials reacted with astonishment shows how so many Brexiters live in a fantasy land where they think Brexit is simply a matter of picking-and-choosing all the rules and regulations that suit them.

barrkel 10y ago
Brexit was a coalition between two completely different groups of people: anti-globalization (whether they know it or not) working class getting marginalized by global shifts in the world economy, the service-orientation of the UK economy, technological change that's reshaping everything everywhere; and pro-globalization free traders who want to be able to undercut EU rules to compete. The interests of these two groups are not aligned. Remain didn't point this out. The reason they weren't able to point it out was because Brexit was sold as a change to the status quo: thus anyone unhappy with the current situation could project whatever they liked as the alternative. Cameron will be tough to beat as the worst PM in the 21st century.
Amezarak 10y ago
> A key reason Nissan expanded operations in the UK was for access to the European market. One has to wonder what people in Sunderland were thinking when they voted. I can't read their minds any more than you can, but maybe they prioritize sovereignty or their idea of the UK over money. It sometimes disturbs me how everything has to be reduced to an economic decision. You need money to live, sure, but there's more to life than money. And besides that, what I'm reading from Krugman and other economists is that the economic consequences being published in the press are dramatically overblown.

sctb 10y ago

> knuckle-draggers Such insults are definitely not OK on Hacker News. Please comment civilly and substantively or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html