6 ms·

FBI: Hillary Clinton Didn't Know 'C' in Emails Meant Classified

53 points by nwrk 10y ago

SCAQTony 10y ago
If you presume everything she told the FBI was true then she was woefully incompetent to be a Secretary of the state and should not be allowed near the oval office. If some or all have proven to be lies then she should have been indicted.
greenyoda 10y ago
The "C" designation actually means "confidential", which is one of the levels of classification, the other common ones being "secret" and "top secret". "[Confidential] is defined as information that would 'damage' national security if publicly disclosed" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_United_States#Levels_of_classification_used_by_the_U.S._government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_...
- rdtsc 10y ago
  > The "C" designation actually means "confidential" Good point. Though original quote still makes sense as "Confidential" is a classification level. So (C) does mean classified, as does (S) and (TS)
dmfdmf 10y ago
It doesn't matter. Ignorance of the law and all that... but I suppose that only applies to us little people.
- archgoon 10y ago
  The law is worded as "knowingly and willfully". This situation is a decent argument for incompetence, but in that case, she isn't criminal.
  - jonah 10y ago
    They laws that us little people are more likely to come up against aren't worded that way...
    - archgoon 10y ago
      Maybe you should take ownership as a citizen of this country and actually work to change the injustice you see rather than whining about how you're powerless on Hacker News?
      - jonah 10y ago
        Oh, I'm not whining, I'm just stating things as I see them. But yes, of course, complaining online doesn't really do much to influence the ruling class.
      - jsfhSfhsgnn 10y ago
        And what do you suggest, oh great bearer of condescension?
        archgoon 10y ago
        "Maybe you should take ownership as a citizen of this country and actually work to change the injustice you see" Reading comprehension for a start. Last I checked this was supposed to be a forum for people who thought they could change the world, and make it a better place. If you don't think you can handle that, or have no ideas, maybe you don't belong here. We don't need people who's only contribution is "We're all completely helpless, there's nothing we can do!". You' re an engineer, you solve problems. Act the fuck like it. Cynicism at this point is nothing but laziness. You want a clue though? Maybe you should look locally and understand the problems there. If you're in San Francisco, there's plenty of things to do to get your feet wet.
        altstar 10y ago
        So what is your idea(s) to change the world? And what is your definition of 'a better place'?
michwill 10y ago
It means "Clinton"
- kalleboo 10y ago
  Maybe she thought it was the MSN "coffee" emoticon? http://neowin.s3.amazonaws.com/forum/uploads/post-32224-1119483807.gif http://neowin.s3.amazonaws.com/forum/uploads/post-32224-1119...
aftbit 10y ago
Clinton took deliberate and illegal action to hide her emails from FOIA. She either told bald-faced lies during a federal investigation, or she was too stupid to deserve to keep her security clearance. And now she will probably be the Commander in Chief of the USA. It kinda makes me miss Bush.
- archgoon 10y ago
  > It kinda makes me miss Bush. You mean how they knowingly and willfully revealed that Valerie Plame was a CIA agent as payback against her husband who had written an article critical about the basis for the Iraqi War?
  - oh_sigh 10y ago
    Any indication Bush was involved in that, and not just Armitage?
- tzmudzin 10y ago
  > It kinda makes me miss Bush. In which respect? Wasn't the Bush administration guilty of a similar offense -- albeit on a much larger scale? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controv...
koolba 10y ago
IF last_name == "Clinton" GOTO out_of_jail ELSE GOTO pound_in_the_ass_prison
cm2012 10y ago
Doubtless this article will be flagged and removed. But I'll put in my 2 cents before then. Only 3 of the 30,000+ emails had these markings. The C marking in the body on its own is not a proper or common method of classification. Comey said that missing this was entirely reasonable in his explanation. This is a non story.
- 5555624 10y ago
  It's not a method of classification, it's a way to mark what is classified (and at what level) and what is not. While I have never sent/received classified email, in the past, I have dealt with classified Navy message traffic. Markings like (C), (S), and (TS) were "portion marks" and marked subjects, paragraphs, etc. throughout the message. (U) is used to mark portions which are unclassified (in a classified message).
jrmg 10y ago
Here's what the FBI report (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3039030/Hillary-Clinton-FBI-Investigation.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3039030/Hillary-C...) actually says: The FBI identified three e-mail chain, encompassing eight individual e-mail exchanges to or from Clinton's personal e-mail accounts, which contained at least one paragraph marked "(C)," a marking ostensibly indicating the presence of information classified at the CONFIDENTIAL level. The emails contained no additional markings, such as a header or footer, indicating that they were classified. State confirmed through the FOIA review process that one of these three e-mail chains contains information which is currently classified at the CONFIDENTIAL level. State determined that the other two e-mail chains are currently UNCLASSIFIED. State did not provide a determination as to whether any of these three e-mails were classified at the time they were sent. When asked about the e-mail chain containing "C" portion markings that State determined to currently contain CONFIDENTIAL information, Clinton stated she did not know what the "(C)" means at the beginning of the paragraphs and speculated it was referencing paragraphs marked in alphabetical order. Clinton identified tied a "CONFIDENTIAL" header and footer (inserted in the document by the FBI prior to the interview) and asked if the "(C)" related to the "CONFIDENTIAL" header and footer. Clinton did not believe the content of the e-mail was classified and questioned the classification determination. When asked of her knowledge regarding TOP SECRET, SECTET, and CONFIDENTIAL classification levels of USG information, Clinton responded that she did not pay attention to the "level" of classification and took all classified information seriously.
- djur 10y ago
  Thank you. Gizmodo's article is grossly misleading, starting with its 100% inaccurate title ("C" doesn't stand for "classified"). This makes their terrible "Facebook is censoring conservatives" story look like Pulitzer material.
Shorel 10y ago
AKA the Bill Gates defense.
TempleOSV409 10y ago
There was the B programming language. The C programjming language came after the B programming language. God says... Anabaptist's slosh Tammany's depth's Elisabeth Reaganomics's sampling worthier Compaq's abrasive's Sahara's fastidiously fool radish Concetta stationery's Croce trusteeships perch bonnets however elicit potash's toolbox differently pastas media's implantation stunning Coppola's constipation's expropriate
Claudus 10y ago
I've been in the computer security industry for decades, 20 years ago I did intrusion detection and computer network security for a large government location as part of a team of about 12 people. I referred people to the Inspector General for prosecution when they attacked our networks. I am really shocked at the level of incompetence here. Even 20 years ago we had 300,000 to 450,000 probes and hack attempts on that one network alone, on a weekly basis. It seems almost certain that her emails were compromised. Destroying them is inexcusable, at the very least those records could have been used to determine what data had been potentially compromised. I can't imagine what went on at the State Department where this kind of thing could happen. And, it isn't just Hillary Clinton who is guilty here. I remember the first day after my security clearance and background checks completed, they spent several hours explaining security policies to me; that felony charges would be brought against me if I walked out the gate with so much as a hard copy of an internal email. I only had the lowest level of clearance for "classified" of "confidential" and even then only as was relevant to performing my job. There were entire buildings in our complex that had "secret" data, and only certain members of our team could investigate those systems for potential intrusions. Even at that level, when you work with potentially classified material, the default behavior is to act is if all information is classified. If you want to published, or release information, it needs to checked and approved, even if it's not sensitive, just to be sure. The only excuse I can possibly imagine, is that the clintonemail.com server was actually an elaborate ruse to leak misinformation to foreign actors.
- cm2012 10y ago
  Remember that all of the classified information on the server was either not classified at the time or was 1 of 3 incorrectly marked classified emails. Also remember the official state server at the time was also confirmed hacked.
  - Claudus 10y ago
    I made some updates to my post regarding classification. Being marked as classified was not something I would expect, instead you should operate as if all information is sensitive. Act as if information must be white-listed for public release. Much how the FBI is handling the data, each piece of information must be reviewed before release. The excuse of "not marked as classified" is akin to a thief using "not marked as don't steal" to justify theft.
EdSharkey 10y ago
The state department is so twisted up in intelligence-related operations. She was read in and briefed on all these classified operations. She was the SECRETARY of STATE: the top of the food chain. I roll my eyes at the excuses given for all her money/power related moves while at State, especially when she could have compromised our agents or moles with her carelessness. She was abysmal as top diplomat (russia reset, all for cratering Syria, Libya and Egypt governments, Benghazi CIA cluster f-). And the whole thing with the Clinton Foundation and her "private" (ClintonEmail.com) email server is icing on the cake - just stinks of pay-to-play, pure greed. She's going to win the presidency, not go to jail or ever be impeached, and she's a terrible person. All that is acceptable to me because Hillary Clinton is just one of those problems that is out of my control.

53 points by nwrk 10y ago

If you presume everything she told the FBI was true then she was woefully incompetent to be a Secretary of the state and should not be allowed near the oval office. If some or all have proven to be lies then she should have been indicted.

greenyoda 10y ago

The "C" designation actually means "confidential", which is one of the levels of classification, the other common ones being "secret" and "top secret". "[Confidential] is defined as information that would 'damage' national security if publicly disclosed" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_United_States#Levels_of_classification_used_by_the_U.S._government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_...

rdtsc 10y ago
> The "C" designation actually means "confidential" Good point. Though original quote still makes sense as "Confidential" is a classification level. So (C) does mean classified, as does (S) and (TS)

dmfdmf 10y ago

It doesn't matter. Ignorance of the law and all that... but I suppose that only applies to us little people.

archgoon 10y ago
The law is worded as "knowingly and willfully". This situation is a decent argument for incompetence, but in that case, she isn't criminal.
- jonah 10y ago
  They laws that us little people are more likely to come up against aren't worded that way...
  - archgoon 10y ago
    Maybe you should take ownership as a citizen of this country and actually work to change the injustice you see rather than whining about how you're powerless on Hacker News?
    - jonah 10y ago
      Oh, I'm not whining, I'm just stating things as I see them. But yes, of course, complaining online doesn't really do much to influence the ruling class.
    - jsfhSfhsgnn 10y ago
      And what do you suggest, oh great bearer of condescension?
      - archgoon 10y ago
        "Maybe you should take ownership as a citizen of this country and actually work to change the injustice you see" Reading comprehension for a start. Last I checked this was supposed to be a forum for people who thought they could change the world, and make it a better place. If you don't think you can handle that, or have no ideas, maybe you don't belong here. We don't need people who's only contribution is "We're all completely helpless, there's nothing we can do!". You' re an engineer, you solve problems. Act the fuck like it. Cynicism at this point is nothing but laziness. You want a clue though? Maybe you should look locally and understand the problems there. If you're in San Francisco, there's plenty of things to do to get your feet wet.
        altstar 10y ago
        So what is your idea(s) to change the world? And what is your definition of 'a better place'?

michwill 10y ago

It means "Clinton"

kalleboo 10y ago
Maybe she thought it was the MSN "coffee" emoticon? http://neowin.s3.amazonaws.com/forum/uploads/post-32224-1119483807.gif http://neowin.s3.amazonaws.com/forum/uploads/post-32224-1119...

aftbit 10y ago

Clinton took deliberate and illegal action to hide her emails from FOIA. She either told bald-faced lies during a federal investigation, or she was too stupid to deserve to keep her security clearance. And now she will probably be the Commander in Chief of the USA. It kinda makes me miss Bush.

archgoon 10y ago
> It kinda makes me miss Bush. You mean how they knowingly and willfully revealed that Valerie Plame was a CIA agent as payback against her husband who had written an article critical about the basis for the Iraqi War?
- oh_sigh 10y ago
  Any indication Bush was involved in that, and not just Armitage?
tzmudzin 10y ago
> It kinda makes me miss Bush. In which respect? Wasn't the Bush administration guilty of a similar offense -- albeit on a much larger scale? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controv...

koolba 10y ago

IF last_name == "Clinton" GOTO out_of_jail ELSE GOTO pound_in_the_ass_prison

cm2012 10y ago

Doubtless this article will be flagged and removed. But I'll put in my 2 cents before then. Only 3 of the 30,000+ emails had these markings. The C marking in the body on its own is not a proper or common method of classification. Comey said that missing this was entirely reasonable in his explanation. This is a non story.

5555624 10y ago
It's not a method of classification, it's a way to mark what is classified (and at what level) and what is not. While I have never sent/received classified email, in the past, I have dealt with classified Navy message traffic. Markings like (C), (S), and (TS) were "portion marks" and marked subjects, paragraphs, etc. throughout the message. (U) is used to mark portions which are unclassified (in a classified message).

jrmg 10y ago

Here's what the FBI report (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3039030/Hillary-Clinton-FBI-Investigation.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3039030/Hillary-C...) actually says: The FBI identified three e-mail chain, encompassing eight individual e-mail exchanges to or from Clinton's personal e-mail accounts, which contained at least one paragraph marked "(C)," a marking ostensibly indicating the presence of information classified at the CONFIDENTIAL level. The emails contained no additional markings, such as a header or footer, indicating that they were classified. State confirmed through the FOIA review process that one of these three e-mail chains contains information which is currently classified at the CONFIDENTIAL level. State determined that the other two e-mail chains are currently UNCLASSIFIED. State did not provide a determination as to whether any of these three e-mails were classified at the time they were sent. When asked about the e-mail chain containing "C" portion markings that State determined to currently contain CONFIDENTIAL information, Clinton stated she did not know what the "(C)" means at the beginning of the paragraphs and speculated it was referencing paragraphs marked in alphabetical order. Clinton identified tied a "CONFIDENTIAL" header and footer (inserted in the document by the FBI prior to the interview) and asked if the "(C)" related to the "CONFIDENTIAL" header and footer. Clinton did not believe the content of the e-mail was classified and questioned the classification determination. When asked of her knowledge regarding TOP SECRET, SECTET, and CONFIDENTIAL classification levels of USG information, Clinton responded that she did not pay attention to the "level" of classification and took all classified information seriously.

djur 10y ago
Thank you. Gizmodo's article is grossly misleading, starting with its 100% inaccurate title ("C" doesn't stand for "classified"). This makes their terrible "Facebook is censoring conservatives" story look like Pulitzer material.

Shorel 10y ago

AKA the Bill Gates defense.

TempleOSV409 10y ago

There was the B programming language. The C programjming language came after the B programming language. God says... Anabaptist's slosh Tammany's depth's Elisabeth Reaganomics's sampling worthier Compaq's abrasive's Sahara's fastidiously fool radish Concetta stationery's Croce trusteeships perch bonnets however elicit potash's toolbox differently pastas media's implantation stunning Coppola's constipation's expropriate

Claudus 10y ago

I've been in the computer security industry for decades, 20 years ago I did intrusion detection and computer network security for a large government location as part of a team of about 12 people. I referred people to the Inspector General for prosecution when they attacked our networks. I am really shocked at the level of incompetence here. Even 20 years ago we had 300,000 to 450,000 probes and hack attempts on that one network alone, on a weekly basis. It seems almost certain that her emails were compromised. Destroying them is inexcusable, at the very least those records could have been used to determine what data had been potentially compromised. I can't imagine what went on at the State Department where this kind of thing could happen. And, it isn't just Hillary Clinton who is guilty here. I remember the first day after my security clearance and background checks completed, they spent several hours explaining security policies to me; that felony charges would be brought against me if I walked out the gate with so much as a hard copy of an internal email. I only had the lowest level of clearance for "classified" of "confidential" and even then only as was relevant to performing my job. There were entire buildings in our complex that had "secret" data, and only certain members of our team could investigate those systems for potential intrusions. Even at that level, when you work with potentially classified material, the default behavior is to act is if all information is classified. If you want to published, or release information, it needs to checked and approved, even if it's not sensitive, just to be sure. The only excuse I can possibly imagine, is that the clintonemail.com server was actually an elaborate ruse to leak misinformation to foreign actors.

cm2012 10y ago
Remember that all of the classified information on the server was either not classified at the time or was 1 of 3 incorrectly marked classified emails. Also remember the official state server at the time was also confirmed hacked.
- Claudus 10y ago
  I made some updates to my post regarding classification. Being marked as classified was not something I would expect, instead you should operate as if all information is sensitive. Act as if information must be white-listed for public release. Much how the FBI is handling the data, each piece of information must be reviewed before release. The excuse of "not marked as classified" is akin to a thief using "not marked as don't steal" to justify theft.

EdSharkey 10y ago

The state department is so twisted up in intelligence-related operations. She was read in and briefed on all these classified operations. She was the SECRETARY of STATE: the top of the food chain. I roll my eyes at the excuses given for all her money/power related moves while at State, especially when she could have compromised our agents or moles with her carelessness. She was abysmal as top diplomat (russia reset, all for cratering Syria, Libya and Egypt governments, Benghazi CIA cluster f-). And the whole thing with the Clinton Foundation and her "private" (ClintonEmail.com) email server is icing on the cake - just stinks of pay-to-play, pure greed. She's going to win the presidency, not go to jail or ever be impeached, and she's a terrible person. All that is acceptable to me because Hillary Clinton is just one of those problems that is out of my control.