5 ms·

Why is this "how to tell a mother her child is dead" instead of "how to tell parents that their child is dead"?

JshWright 10y ago
I have told parents their child has died. It may not be 'right', but in every case, even when both parents are present, I'm talking to the mother. I am a father of three. Were I in those horrible shoes, I'm quite certain I would feel that my wife was the one "being told". Maybe that's just some misplaced "macho" attitude on my part, but it's always been true, in my experience.
- cperciva 10y ago
  It is certainly a general rule that fathers are not seen as being equal parents; I think FT_intern's point is that they should be treated as equal parents. The headline's casual dismissal of fathers is symptomatic of a societal failing.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    What is this general rule of which you speak? I suspect you of talking nonsense, sir.
    - cperciva 10y ago
      As JshWright said, when there's something to be said involving a child, most people turn to the mother rather than the father.
      - throwanem 10y ago
        My prior comment was ill-considered and unnecessarily combative, for which I apologize. My own experience includes a mother who did in fact mostly raise me, but also a father who was generally feckless in a wide variety of ways. On reflection, I strongly suspect I have based my understanding of parenting dynamics in families with two worthwhile parents primarily on wishful thinking - excusable in a child, perhaps, but not so in a grown adult. I'll keep an eye out for that in future.
    - xapata 10y ago
      Funny, I just read PG's essay about "taboo" thoughts today.
    - wpietri 10y ago
      It's not nonsense at all. You not understanding something is not evidence that it makes no sense. My brother is my nephew's primary caregiver. It just worked out better that way; it was easier for him to take time off of work because his wife was the one with the good health insurance and working in the more stable industry. Over the years he's had many stories of being literally the odd man out. It's not a big deal to him, but it's the case. Just another one of patriarchy's leftovers. That said, I think the article is fine as it is. A lot of emotional impact in writing comes from specificity, from authenticity in detail. She is telling her story, and telling it so that we feel it too.
  - JshWright 10y ago
    It's not so much an 'equal parent' thing, in my opinion. Like I said above, I'm a father of three (I'm up feeding our 4 month old twins right now actually...), and we're absolutely 'equal' parents. My wife handles a larger share of the childcare duties, just like I handle a larger share of the landscaping... It's just the division of labor that works best for us. We're both very aware of, and quick to correct, attitudes that she's somehow more of 'parent' than I am (e.g. when she goes out in the evening, I am not "babysitting"...) So, I am very sensitive to your point, and I think it's an important one, but i don't think it's the primary motivator for the use of "mother" in the article. I suspect the reasons are (at least) twofold. The primary demographic served by this ER doc has a very high rate of single mothers. I'm not making commentary on that beyond the simple fact that it is the reality. My guess is most of the time she's talking to the mother because the mother _is_ the only parent present. When the father is there though, I studied he feels as I do... In that awful moment, I would want the doctor's attention on my wife. I would want as much support as possible for her in that time. I'll make do on my own for now... Like I said, that's likely misguided chivalry or a 'macho' attitude on my part, but it's my honest take on the situation, and I suspect I'm in the majority.
    - JshWright 10y ago
      s/I studied he feels/I suspect he feels/ I normally wouldn't bother with a follow comment about a typo, but I think it seriously impacts the readability (like I said... feeding twins in the wee hours of the morning...)
    - cperciva 10y ago
      I have no doubt that you're in the majority; stereotypes very often exist for reasons of statistical predictive power. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't recognize and push back against the stereotypes, for the sake of those who aren't (or even more importantly don't want to be) part of that majority.
wyldfire 10y ago
Wild speculation: the Philadelphia youths subject to rampant gun violence may have a trend of lacking a male adult influence in their lives. In which case, this physician delivering news to <parents> might too often be delivering the news to only the mother.
highwind 10y ago
It could be a style choice. Being more specific makes it feel more real, at least for me. Making it general sounds detached.
- jtheory 10y ago
  This is the reason. It's abstractly difficult to inform a person that their close family member has died, potentially from violent causes, possibly very suddenly. But come down this hallway, now, to tell this woman that her child is dead; this is what it will be like. You'll need to change your clothes first; you'll need to practice first; and this is what it will do to her, and what it will do to you. I (obviously) found this very powerful, and while there's some compromise involved in adding in these carefully-selected specifics, it's worth it.

I have told parents their child has died. It may not be 'right', but in every case, even when both parents are present, I'm talking to the mother. I am a father of three. Were I in those horrible shoes, I'm quite certain I would feel that my wife was the one "being told". Maybe that's just some misplaced "macho" attitude on my part, but it's always been true, in my experience.

cperciva 10y ago
It is certainly a general rule that fathers are not seen as being equal parents; I think FT_intern's point is that they should be treated as equal parents. The headline's casual dismissal of fathers is symptomatic of a societal failing.
- throwanem 10y ago
  What is this general rule of which you speak? I suspect you of talking nonsense, sir.
  - cperciva 10y ago
    As JshWright said, when there's something to be said involving a child, most people turn to the mother rather than the father.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      My prior comment was ill-considered and unnecessarily combative, for which I apologize. My own experience includes a mother who did in fact mostly raise me, but also a father who was generally feckless in a wide variety of ways. On reflection, I strongly suspect I have based my understanding of parenting dynamics in families with two worthwhile parents primarily on wishful thinking - excusable in a child, perhaps, but not so in a grown adult. I'll keep an eye out for that in future.
  - xapata 10y ago
    Funny, I just read PG's essay about "taboo" thoughts today.
  - wpietri 10y ago
    It's not nonsense at all. You not understanding something is not evidence that it makes no sense. My brother is my nephew's primary caregiver. It just worked out better that way; it was easier for him to take time off of work because his wife was the one with the good health insurance and working in the more stable industry. Over the years he's had many stories of being literally the odd man out. It's not a big deal to him, but it's the case. Just another one of patriarchy's leftovers. That said, I think the article is fine as it is. A lot of emotional impact in writing comes from specificity, from authenticity in detail. She is telling her story, and telling it so that we feel it too.
- JshWright 10y ago
  It's not so much an 'equal parent' thing, in my opinion. Like I said above, I'm a father of three (I'm up feeding our 4 month old twins right now actually...), and we're absolutely 'equal' parents. My wife handles a larger share of the childcare duties, just like I handle a larger share of the landscaping... It's just the division of labor that works best for us. We're both very aware of, and quick to correct, attitudes that she's somehow more of 'parent' than I am (e.g. when she goes out in the evening, I am not "babysitting"...) So, I am very sensitive to your point, and I think it's an important one, but i don't think it's the primary motivator for the use of "mother" in the article. I suspect the reasons are (at least) twofold. The primary demographic served by this ER doc has a very high rate of single mothers. I'm not making commentary on that beyond the simple fact that it is the reality. My guess is most of the time she's talking to the mother because the mother _is_ the only parent present. When the father is there though, I studied he feels as I do... In that awful moment, I would want the doctor's attention on my wife. I would want as much support as possible for her in that time. I'll make do on my own for now... Like I said, that's likely misguided chivalry or a 'macho' attitude on my part, but it's my honest take on the situation, and I suspect I'm in the majority.
  - JshWright 10y ago
    s/I studied he feels/I suspect he feels/ I normally wouldn't bother with a follow comment about a typo, but I think it seriously impacts the readability (like I said... feeding twins in the wee hours of the morning...)
  - cperciva 10y ago
    I have no doubt that you're in the majority; stereotypes very often exist for reasons of statistical predictive power. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't recognize and push back against the stereotypes, for the sake of those who aren't (or even more importantly don't want to be) part of that majority.

wyldfire 10y ago

Wild speculation: the Philadelphia youths subject to rampant gun violence may have a trend of lacking a male adult influence in their lives. In which case, this physician delivering news to <parents> might too often be delivering the news to only the mother.

highwind 10y ago

It could be a style choice. Being more specific makes it feel more real, at least for me. Making it general sounds detached.

jtheory 10y ago
This is the reason. It's abstractly difficult to inform a person that their close family member has died, potentially from violent causes, possibly very suddenly. But come down this hallway, now, to tell this woman that her child is dead; this is what it will be like. You'll need to change your clothes first; you'll need to practice first; and this is what it will do to her, and what it will do to you. I (obviously) found this very powerful, and while there's some compromise involved in adding in these carefully-selected specifics, it's worth it.