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I'd like articles on this subject to at least mention two other significant costs: Impact on jobs: Unless and until Uber starts treating their workers fairly

I'd like articles on this subject to at least mention two other significant costs: Impact on jobs: Unless and until Uber starts treating their workers fairly (treating them like employees and allowing them some negotiating power over their own livelihoods) not only is it bad for those workers and working people in general, but it's also bad for the country, which has to cover health care and other needs for those workers. Does anyone know how Lyft does in that regard? Climate impact: * Buying a new car creates the impact of mining raw materials, processing them, manufacturing, shipping, etc. I have no idea what that impact is. * For purposes of the trip itself, I think using standard taxi/Uber/Lyft services probably increases climate impact over a personal car: The ride-hailing cars drive around empty part of the time, waiting for rides; your personal car is parked when you don't use it. Otherwise, whether you are in someone else's car or your own for the trip, the impact is the same (unless your car is more/less efficient than the ride-hailing car) * Sharing rides, such as in trains, buses, carpool, UberPool, etc., obviously is much more efficient. I suspect the more people in the vehicle, the more efficient it is: Trains beat buses beat carpools, but I really don't know that.

philwelch 10y ago
> * For purposes of the trip itself, I think using standard taxi/Uber/Lyft services probably increases climate impact over a personal car: The ride-hailing cars drive around empty part of the time, waiting for rides; your personal car is parked when you don't use it. Otherwise, whether you are in someone else's car or your own for the trip, the impact is the same (unless your car is more/less efficient than the ride-hailing car) When demand is low, the driver will take the car home and park it anyway. I think for climate impact, ride sharing more efficiently amortizes the fixed cost of manufacturing the car over the trips taken, since a single Uber driver and car can more than one owner-operated car. Also, the profit motive of the Uber driver incentivizes fuel efficient cars.
woodandsteel 10y ago
As far as climate impact goes, I think the long-term idea is on-demand, self-driving electric cars that get their energy from wind and solar. Remember, the present system, which is destroying the climate, has many parts, so you have to change most or all of them to really fix things. But the parts will not be changed all at once. So for each component you need something new that will sell on its own, but also fit into the new overall pattern you want to get to eventually. What the transportation-on-demand companies are doing is a good example of this.
- hackuser 10y ago
  > As far as climate impact goes, I think the long-term idea is on-demand, self-driving electric cars that get their energy from wind and solar. Hmmm ... * Is there research showing that self-driving cars impact climate significantly less than person-driven cars? * On-demand should reduce the number of cars manufactured compared to individually owned cars, which helps but I have no idea how much. * There may be much more efficient public transport, such as buses and trains, than a fleet of on-demand self-driving cars. * If wind and solar can power self-driving cars, they probably can power any other kind. I don't see how the energy source ties in with the rest.
  - woodandsteel 10y ago
    On-demand helps with mass transit because it solves the last-mile problem. On-demand self-driving cars are cheaper to use than on-demand with a paid driver, so more people will use them, which cuts the total number of cars needed. As you say, that means less energy expended on building cars. It also means less energy for road construction and maintenance, and less city parking. Less city parking means more density, which cuts transportation costs. I forgot to say in my OP that the new pattern would also include extensive car pooling, which on-demand makes possible and I am guessing that self-driving makes somewhat easier.
    - hackuser 10y ago
      Great points; thanks.
smileysteve 10y ago
We cover insurance, but often not the realities of liability. Insurance has deductibles and limits. And often, people who get in accidents under insure (no collision / comprehensive) and postpone repairs to their own cars.

philwelch 10y ago

> * For purposes of the trip itself, I think using standard taxi/Uber/Lyft services probably increases climate impact over a personal car: The ride-hailing cars drive around empty part of the time, waiting for rides; your personal car is parked when you don't use it. Otherwise, whether you are in someone else's car or your own for the trip, the impact is the same (unless your car is more/less efficient than the ride-hailing car) When demand is low, the driver will take the car home and park it anyway. I think for climate impact, ride sharing more efficiently amortizes the fixed cost of manufacturing the car over the trips taken, since a single Uber driver and car can more than one owner-operated car. Also, the profit motive of the Uber driver incentivizes fuel efficient cars.

woodandsteel 10y ago

As far as climate impact goes, I think the long-term idea is on-demand, self-driving electric cars that get their energy from wind and solar. Remember, the present system, which is destroying the climate, has many parts, so you have to change most or all of them to really fix things. But the parts will not be changed all at once. So for each component you need something new that will sell on its own, but also fit into the new overall pattern you want to get to eventually. What the transportation-on-demand companies are doing is a good example of this.

hackuser 10y ago
> As far as climate impact goes, I think the long-term idea is on-demand, self-driving electric cars that get their energy from wind and solar. Hmmm ... * Is there research showing that self-driving cars impact climate significantly less than person-driven cars? * On-demand should reduce the number of cars manufactured compared to individually owned cars, which helps but I have no idea how much. * There may be much more efficient public transport, such as buses and trains, than a fleet of on-demand self-driving cars. * If wind and solar can power self-driving cars, they probably can power any other kind. I don't see how the energy source ties in with the rest.
- woodandsteel 10y ago
  On-demand helps with mass transit because it solves the last-mile problem. On-demand self-driving cars are cheaper to use than on-demand with a paid driver, so more people will use them, which cuts the total number of cars needed. As you say, that means less energy expended on building cars. It also means less energy for road construction and maintenance, and less city parking. Less city parking means more density, which cuts transportation costs. I forgot to say in my OP that the new pattern would also include extensive car pooling, which on-demand makes possible and I am guessing that self-driving makes somewhat easier.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    Great points; thanks.

smileysteve 10y ago

We cover insurance, but often not the realities of liability. Insurance has deductibles and limits. And often, people who get in accidents under insure (no collision / comprehensive) and postpone repairs to their own cars.