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> [...] since not that many know how to ride a bicycle. Come on, seriously? It gives a pretty poor image of the average american. Manual transmission? Don't kn

• rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  Average American in a Norman Rockwell painting, maybe. A lot of kids grow up these days without learning how to ride a bike. We just learn to drive early. And I've never encountered a non-smug argument against automatic transmission.
  • revelation 10y ago
    I have, because just recently someone tried to convince me it's just plain impossible to go at slow speeds (<10mph) in a car. And apparently that's very difficult when you don't have the clutch to moderate speed, or so I was told. It might just be that American drivers aren't used to going in any sense slow at all. (But those damn bikers, always zipping by! By the cries, you must think cyclists in America have some magic potion that makes them go 50mph instead of, you know, <=20mph peak)
    • kwhitefoot 10y ago
      Strange idea. My 1999 Rover 75 has an automatic transmission and I have no trouble driving slowly (if I must). Never had any trouble driving cars in the US either (many visits over the last 20 years) and quite a lot of that was pretty slow (freeway from Raleigh to RDU on a Friday afternoon can be pretty much walking speed sometimes).
    • thaumasiotes 10y ago
      My 2002 automatic Corolla moved forward very slowly when in drive with no application of the accelerator at all. Obviously, it's possible. > It might just be that American drivers aren't used to going in any sense slow at all. We have traffic jams here too. They are a huge percentage of time spent driving. (Since they're so slow.)
    • Broken_Hippo 10y ago
      Well, it isn't impossible, but automatics vary on ease of this. Most automatics will move forward without pressing on the gas if they are in driving gear. Some do this faster than 10mph. Going less than idling speed requires fancy brakework. It is much easier with a manual transmission. It isn't going forward with some power from you. Ease up on the clutch a bit and give just a bit of gas and you have no problems.
  • godzillabrennus 10y ago
    Is it smug to enjoy the perception of having more control over the vehicle's performance? What's funny to me is the observation that only low end and high end cars have had manual transmissions. I started out with a low end Honda and either had to give it up or jump to a high end vehicle a decade later. I bought a second hand Audi to keep going with a manual at the time. Car's are a heck of a depreciating asset.
    • waterphone 10y ago
      Not at all smug to enjoy it, but smug to judge other people who don't care about that and just want their car to take care of shifting gears on its own.
    • mikestew 10y ago
      Is it smug to enjoy the perception of having more control over the vehicle's performance? Enjoy it all you like, as long as you keep it to yourself. The point was about the argument, not the enjoyment. But "perception" is correct. After driving a '16 Corvette (Mom's) and a '15 BMW 428 (rental), I'm convinced that a manual transmission is good only for nostalgia or a mis-placed sense that one can do better with a manual. With double-clutch transmissions attached to an eight speed gearbox, I am now the bottleneck in the equation. I've played with the flappy paddles and concluded, "meh, who am I kidding, the computer can do this better and faster than I can". Let alone having to push a foot pedal and move a lever. To add insult to injury, a lot of cars I've looked at get better mileage with the auto than the manual. sigh In conclusion, those with the smug attitude along the lines of "a real driver would drive a manual" can stuff it, the machines have won. There's no more need to manually shift the gears than there is to manually advance the ignition with a lever on the steering column. That said, four out of five vehicles in our house have manuals (the Leaf doesn't have a transmission at all), but were I to buy a modern performance car today it would have one of them there fancy DCT eight speed autos. As for the mid-range being auto-only, makes a bit of sense to me. Low-end offers manuals for economy. High-end for performance, even if it's not entirely accurate these days. Mid-range? You mean the people that just want to drive to work in some thing other than an econo-box? Yeah, I guess they'd go auto since they're not trying to save money nor are they really "into" cars.
  • waterphone 10y ago
    This isn't an argument that everyone will care about, but it is a legitimate one for some: manual transmissions are much easier/cheaper to repair/rebuild.
    • mikestew 10y ago
      The question seems to be which you'd care to replace first: clutch or rebuild the tranny? So I've been told, anyway. I've driven manuals all my life and don't recall replacing a clutch in anything I've owned, car or motorcycle. Come to think of it, of the few auto trannies I've had I don't recall having to get those rebuilt, either. And I've owned some hard-ridden vehicles, so maybe I'm just easy on tranny parts. The tranny has to be removed in either case, so it's a question of what's easier once the tranny's out. For me, I'm happy to put a clutch in. I haven't the first clue how an auto tranny works Well, I have an idea of the principal, but no working knowledge of what those little check balls and the like do.
      • Roboprog 10y ago
        I wore the clutch out on the first manual I had in just over 6 years (too much slipping out slowly, I'm sure). After that, it went another 15 years or so before other reasons made the clutch/tranny life moot. Replacing a clutch is quite a bit cheaper, though, than rebuilding an entire automatic tranny.
  • gutnor 10y ago
    > And I've never encountered a non-smug argument against automatic transmission. Manual are cheaper and ubiquitous. If you want an automatic car in Europe, you pay premium on a new car, and a very large premium each time you rent a car. I'm not sure how that works for second hand cars - there are less but less people interested too, so not sure where the balance tip. In any case, automatic car tend to be expensive cars to begin with (BMW Series 5, ...) - you won't find as easily a regular joe car that is automatic.
    • hueving 10y ago
      Manuals are the same price in the US as automatics (or are more expensive) and are harder to find. Buying a new manual doesn't make economic sense here anymore. It's purely for the fun.
      • c0nducktr 10y ago
        Manuals are the same price in the US as automatics (or are more expensive) This is absolutely false. Not every car is offered with manual transmission, but cars that can be configured with both are almost always cheaper with a manual. I cannot recall every seeing a case where it was the more expensive option.
        • ericd 10y ago
          An example: http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/ http://automobiles.honda.com/fit/ $800 more with automatic, about 5% of the cost of the car.
          • criddell 10y ago
            That's the purchase price. In the US, the market for manual transmission cars is smaller and so unless you plan on driving it into the ground, that manual transmission could very well end up costing the same. On top of that, automatic transmission cars are more fuel efficient, so the operating costs might be a wee bit lower.
  • gvurrdon 10y ago
    Automatic transmission cars are not popular in the UK. I've never really understood why, but I get the impression that they are considered to be expensive, unreliable and somehow offering poor performance or fuel economy. I've never owned one (there aren't many for sale) and so I wouldn't know whether such opinions have any basis in fact. However, IIRC passing the driving test in an automatic only allows the driving of automatics whereas passing it in a manual allows driving all cars, so driving lessons are conducted in manual cars. It is slightly amusing that my current manual car has a display I can't turn off which tells me when it thinks I should change gear. The software which issues these instructions can tell when I am trying to accelerate rapidly or navigate hills and changes its instructions accordingly, so it might as well be changing the gears for me.
    • barney54 10y ago
      For a long time manual transmission cars got better fuel economy. That has only recently changed where automatics beat manual transmission cars. The high price of gas in Europe is a key reason why people chose manuals for a long time.
      • kalleboo 10y ago
        Last time I looked up the claims that autos have better fuel economy, all I saw were manufacturer ratings being quoted. I'd love to see a real-world study of real drivers. I know that personally I can tell I'm a much worse driver in an auto. I'm lazy - so in a manual that means paying extra attention to lights and the traffic so I can engine brake and coast more and avoid stopping and starting from first. In an auto I'm simply lazy period so I end up driving more stop-and-go. I wonder how much of an outlier I am.
    • anexprogrammer 10y ago
      6 or 7 years ago I owned my only automatic after a few mostly poor experiences hiring, especially in the US. It was pleasant enough in traffic jams, but everywhere else it was compromised - it'd change gear when I'd prefer it didn't, preferred to drive like a limousine driver (slow, and very steady, slow gentle changes) to such an extent that I had to keep it permanently in sport mode, though it was far from sporty. The book figures said it gave just about the same economy as the manual version, but real life use gave me far further from those than I ever remember experiencing with a manual. I'll never have another unless it is a sporty thing with 8 speed, paddles and a prancing horse on the bonnet.
  • david-given 10y ago
    I'm from the UK, and automatics are pretty rare here. If you do your driving test in an automatic, your license is annotated so you can only drive automatics, so people do it in manuals instead; and then, of course, they buy a manual, because they're cheaper. So my first experience with an automatic gearbox was on a holiday to the US. And I loathed it. It felt like all the controls were connected to the road via rubber bands --- everything seemed to happen a couple of seconds after I moved the controls. If that had been my only experience of an automatic, then I too would be saying how horrible they were. But then, much, much later I tried driving a hybrid with a CVT automatic gearbox. (I can't even remember what it was now.) And it was... amazing. It felt just right. There was no lag, there was no uncomfortable feeling of being in the wrong gear. It was like it was reading my mind. I put this down to being an expensive hybrid with lots of low-end torque from the electric motor, but then just this year I drove a Nissan X-Trail, also with CVT, and it was just as good. So I'm willing to say: not all automatic gearboxes are the same.
    • Roboprog 10y ago
      The CVT in my wife's Honda is surprisingly good. No "sag and surge" due to shifting. It just keeps going (with an engine RPM proportional to the throttle amount) as you hit the freeway onramp. Her car has a bigger engine than my Prius (also with a CVT as well as the motor/generator), though. My car does very well around town, being quite peppy in the 0 to 30 range, but a bit more doggish getting up to freeway speed. But it makes a good daily driver otherwise. Traditional automatics seem to change gears and re-clutch slowly. The 5 speed on my old small pickup was fun to drive, once I learned how to do it years ago :-)
    • astrange 10y ago
      That rubber-band feeling is exactly what CVTs are known for around here. Maybe you got one the whole time? Of course, rental cars have the most terrible engines no matter what. The fastest gear switching is on DSG/DCT engines, or electric cars which don't have gears in the first place. Both of those should beat a manual car in speed and mileage. BTW, as an American who can't drive manual or ride a bike, and grew up in a city which didn't even have sidewalks, I recommend this as a great way to become a computer expert.
• justinator 10y ago
  I'm a, to put it lightly, a cycling enthusiast. I bet this means that people don't know how to get from A to B on a bicycle, rather than, you know, being able to pedal a bicycle in a straight line, and keep the thing upright. For example: which streets are the best to take? What's legal/illegal to do? (sidewalks OK? "I DON'T KNOW? I'M SCARED TO RIDE ON THE ROAD/NOT ON THE ROAD") Where do I lock up this thing? What happens at night - do I need lights? What kind of light? What do I do if it start raining? Oh no? What do I do about my wheel - the tires not holding air! These are topics not always taught to you... ever by... anyone. Especially the legal aspects of bicycle rights on the road. That leads to all sorts of arguments about what bikes can/cannot do and creates a horrible opposing relationship with cyclists and other road users. As a motorist, if you don't ride a bike as an adult, you may have NO idea what a cyclist is allowed to do on the road, but the same can be said about a cyclist that's JUST getting into riding a bike. They'll make all sorts of mistakes, and put themselves in bad situations, often angering other users of the road. How long is that going to last, until that bike is back in the back of the garage? What's the solution? Seek out a support group of cyclists to help you.
  • Fiahil 10y ago
    I'm kind of surprised. I live in France and spent my time growing up in the countryside. I was aware of common cycling regulations, all the do and don't, by the time I was in 5th grade. I know biking in a city is very different from biking on a road in the middle of nowhere. And, even I, prefer to avoid crowded circulations and difficult crossings, because those other road users are pesky assholes (at least in Paris) when it comes to sharing anything with pedestrians, cyclists, or even other motorized vehicles. Kudos to cyclists support groups!
    • justinator 10y ago
      When I rode in France - once on a two-month tour through the country, and once living in Paris, I was incredibly shocked at how aware motorists were to cyclists. Motorists would drive fast around me, but I wasn't worried that their intentions were maligned. Coming back to the States, and I had to readapt to being much more defensive. In short: it's just embedded in the French culture. France has le Tour, we have football. Switzerland takes this to a whole 'nother level, saying nothing about the Netherlands, Denmark, etc. In the States, I feel very much like an enemy on the road. I mean, I'm just riding my bike to work.
• neffy 10y ago
  Seriously. Before I lived in LA, I lived in Boston. I still have the rather nice pair of wire cutters that were left behind rather hastily when I came back to get my bicycle at the stand after being in a shop for about 3 minutes. Now that is a city with a bicycle theft problem. But military histories quite often comment how most of the GI's had much better mechanical skills that their British counterparts, and how baseball pitching was instrumental in their superior grenade use. (Cricket bowling just doesn't teach quite the right skills there.) Despite being one of the most homogeneous species on the planet, everybody is different. I agree it was rather cruel of the local council to stick a magic roundabout right outside Heathrow's car hire[1], to add to the driving on the wrong side/manual transmission nightmare, but at least it let's people know what they're in for. [1] http://goo.gl/Dk3mXw http://goo.gl/Dk3mXw
  • Fiahil 10y ago
    > I agree it was rather cruel of the local council to stick a magic roundabout right outside Heathrow's car hire[1] The inverted pentagram shape (facing east) of that thing was made on purpose, right? It seems, somebody on the city council just wanted to summon a massive demon :)
    • chillydawg 10y ago
      The whole M25 is a cruel, demonic joke.
  • usrusr 10y ago
    A two-stage roundabout??? This gives me an entirely new level of respect for the general insanity of humankind!
  • rsync 10y ago
    Do I view this sat pic correctly and see that those are nested roundabouts ? Is that a thing ? Is this the only example of such a thing, or do they exist elsewhere ?
    • detaro 10y ago
• finid 10y ago
  If you've never ridden a bicycle before, you _have_ to learn how to ride, else you can injure yourself. I learned how to ride in my early teen years, on a bike that was too high for me. That resulted in an injury that I still have to this day.
  • deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
• yuja_wang 10y ago
  I can assure you, having spent most of this month in and around San Francisco, that most people--even those on bicycles--have no idea how to use them! For example, they don't know how to stop at stop signs and red lights.
• Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  Just for clarifacation: I live in Northern Europe, but am American. The manual transmissions? Part of this is the lack of requirement for driver training to teach folks. The other bit of this is that most folks don't have access to manual transmissions. A great deal of cars don't even offer the option. I was fortunate enough to learn to drive one years ago, but not all are. This is really simple lack of availability. Ancedote: My spouse and I own a (older) 4 door sedan. It has a manual transmission. Now, the brand isn't sold in the states, but many similarly sized vehicles are. In the US, this class of vehicle isn't generally available with a manual transmission - if it is available at all. Usually, the only cars with the options are the smallest cars, trucks, or luxury vehicles.