6 ms·

Another case of antiquated laws losing touch with current realities. Are people really that naïve to think that a few handguns or rifles will matter against a g

Another case of antiquated laws losing touch with current realities. Are people really that naïve to think that a few handguns or rifles will matter against a government with superior weaponry? This isn't the 18th century anymore; handguns and assault rifles won't stand up to tanks and jets.

modoc 10y ago
Granted this is a massive over simplification, but during the Revolutionary War a bunch of farmers with the simplest of firearms did pretty well against better equipped, organized, trained soldiers. In many fights of this type (internal) victory doesn't necessarily require militia A defeating army (with tanks) B. It can come from militia A being a large enough PITA to warrant a change in plans, or gathering enough popular engagement and outrage to make a difference, or for members of Army B to say "hey I don't want to shoot (or be shot by) my neighbors in Milita A". FWIW I am not a proponent of armed revolt against our government, but I think your question regarding AR-15s vs M1 Abrams isn't capturing a possible/likely reality.
- Maken 10y ago
  That's a heavily romanticized vision of the American Civil War. The revolutionary army was composed in a good part of pre-existing militia from the colonies, which was later expanded with enlisted civilians.
  - modoc 10y ago
    Like I said, super simplified. But surely you aren't arguing that the revolution army was trained or equipped to the same degree as the British Army?
semi-extrinsic 10y ago
I don't see why you're being downvoted, but: trained and well-equipped people with hunting rifles can form an effective guerrilla. However, whether they could do much in the US today other than harass the civilian population, much in the same way as violent gangs in the inner cities already do, is highly questionable.
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  The guy in Dallas got a pretty good body count with zero local support. Local support counts for a lot, just look at Vietnam, Iraq and so on.
  - hga 10y ago
    The guy in Dallas is a very interesting example, much less "crazy" than the usual, he had close quarters combat (CQC) skills substantially greater than the cops who engaged him (or mine, for that matter). It's something that should sober up a lot of gun controllers; what if non-crazy people, lots of whom are able to train themselves up to his level (something the IRA did not have the ability to do, BTW), decide they've "had enough"? (The tide has been going the other way for a long time in most of the country, so we aren't even vaguely close to that, but, it should be thought about, just like some Democrats had second thoughts on gun control after the Saturday Night Massacre: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre (scary times, those were).)
    - DanBC 10y ago
      Yet another threat of mass murder. It's pretty hard to have sensible discussions with someone who resorts to threatening to kill his opponents. There are a bunch of these. Here are just three: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6280963#6283297 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6280963#6283297 > You're demonstrably wrong about "no one's going to take our guns" when it comes to slave states like New York and California that have confiscated them in recent memory, and in the latter's case is poised to do another round, but in general correct ... because in most of the US we won't tolerate it, one way or another. Keep pushing, though, if you want a second Civil War with the half or so of the nation that's "the fanatical right wing". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11558752#11563587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11558752#11563587 > In return, we've made it clear that we know our 20th Century history, if they get very far in this, we'll kill them, wholesale and retail. No common ground possible there. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9835655#9838781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9835655#9838781 > I don't see how you and wisty deny that people on my side would turn our current cold civil war into a hot shooting war. We've read our 20th Century history, we know the potential end games for us and our families. We haven't been buying guns and ammo at historically unprecedented rates just to bury them.
mgarfias 10y ago
Ask the south Vietnamese government how all that superior firepower kept them in power.
- hga 10y ago
  And the peoples in the "sandbox" who have or whom are out waiting us.

modoc 10y ago

Granted this is a massive over simplification, but during the Revolutionary War a bunch of farmers with the simplest of firearms did pretty well against better equipped, organized, trained soldiers. In many fights of this type (internal) victory doesn't necessarily require militia A defeating army (with tanks) B. It can come from militia A being a large enough PITA to warrant a change in plans, or gathering enough popular engagement and outrage to make a difference, or for members of Army B to say "hey I don't want to shoot (or be shot by) my neighbors in Milita A". FWIW I am not a proponent of armed revolt against our government, but I think your question regarding AR-15s vs M1 Abrams isn't capturing a possible/likely reality.

Maken 10y ago
That's a heavily romanticized vision of the American Civil War. The revolutionary army was composed in a good part of pre-existing militia from the colonies, which was later expanded with enlisted civilians.
- modoc 10y ago
  Like I said, super simplified. But surely you aren't arguing that the revolution army was trained or equipped to the same degree as the British Army?

semi-extrinsic 10y ago

I don't see why you're being downvoted, but: trained and well-equipped people with hunting rifles can form an effective guerrilla. However, whether they could do much in the US today other than harass the civilian population, much in the same way as violent gangs in the inner cities already do, is highly questionable.

dsfyu404ed 10y ago
The guy in Dallas got a pretty good body count with zero local support. Local support counts for a lot, just look at Vietnam, Iraq and so on.
- hga 10y ago
  The guy in Dallas is a very interesting example, much less "crazy" than the usual, he had close quarters combat (CQC) skills substantially greater than the cops who engaged him (or mine, for that matter). It's something that should sober up a lot of gun controllers; what if non-crazy people, lots of whom are able to train themselves up to his level (something the IRA did not have the ability to do, BTW), decide they've "had enough"? (The tide has been going the other way for a long time in most of the country, so we aren't even vaguely close to that, but, it should be thought about, just like some Democrats had second thoughts on gun control after the Saturday Night Massacre: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre (scary times, those were).)
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Yet another threat of mass murder. It's pretty hard to have sensible discussions with someone who resorts to threatening to kill his opponents. There are a bunch of these. Here are just three: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6280963#6283297 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6280963#6283297 > You're demonstrably wrong about "no one's going to take our guns" when it comes to slave states like New York and California that have confiscated them in recent memory, and in the latter's case is poised to do another round, but in general correct ... because in most of the US we won't tolerate it, one way or another. Keep pushing, though, if you want a second Civil War with the half or so of the nation that's "the fanatical right wing". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11558752#11563587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11558752#11563587 > In return, we've made it clear that we know our 20th Century history, if they get very far in this, we'll kill them, wholesale and retail. No common ground possible there. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9835655#9838781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9835655#9838781 > I don't see how you and wisty deny that people on my side would turn our current cold civil war into a hot shooting war. We've read our 20th Century history, we know the potential end games for us and our families. We haven't been buying guns and ammo at historically unprecedented rates just to bury them.

mgarfias 10y ago

Ask the south Vietnamese government how all that superior firepower kept them in power.

hga 10y ago
And the peoples in the "sandbox" who have or whom are out waiting us.