7 ms·

Good. The gov't has no more a right to track my guns as they do my book purchases. "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a gov't

by lwhalen 10y ago

Good. The gov't has no more a right to track my guns as they do my book purchases. "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a gov't agency.

pjc50 10y ago
But you're OK with the car registration system? And the cell phone IMEI database? And the no-fly list? Edit: I should have been more general with the "you". Only the opposition to the gun database has succeeded. There's no general conversation about privacy; there's no coalition of pro-privacy orgs with a consistent view on what should and should not be stored in databases. Why is this?
- DamnYuppie 10y ago
  As someone who agrees with the OP I am definitely not a fan of the no-fly list and other centralized registration databases.
- beachstartup 10y ago
  > But you're OK with the car registration system? And the cell phone IMEI database? And the no-fly list? uh, did he say he was? i'm sorry, did i neglect to read half the article, or half his comment, where these things are mentioned?
- unethical_ban 10y ago
  Cell phone database is questionable, and cars are for those on the road. And I'm not liking the idea that in the near future, plate scanners will know where I'm going all the time. I should be able to move without the government knowing.
rimantas 10y ago
Of course, book is a deadly weapon.
jolynch 10y ago
People don't use books to kill, maim and disfigure other people, they use guns. There are zero logical reasons to prohibit a database that maps gun metadata to the gun record (search by name is actually detrimental to proper investigations). I've heard lots of emotional reasons, but I haven't heard a single well reasoned logical argument. Just a lot of reductio ad absurdum.
- douche 10y ago
  They can use books to inspire other people to kill, maim and disfigure other people.
  - allemagne 10y ago
    Sure, buying an orange peel can result in death too. Guns just happen to be especially efficient at it.
    - hga 10y ago
      Mein Kampf, periodicals like Der Stürmer, The Communist Manifesto and the many other books like What Is to Be Done?, they were part of vastly more leveraged ways to end up killing people with guns, gas, or starvation/overwork than any single gun, or the collective guns in civilian hands, which, of course, weren't an issue in the disarmed populaces that were genocided in the 20th Century by the 10s, probably 100s of millions.
- chris_va 10y ago
  Well, not that I agree with it entirely, but here's my understanding of the argument (which might be entirely wrong): Going way back, the 2nd amendment entitles US citizens to own firearms because it's supposed to be a government for the people, by the people. If the people no longer support the government, they can revolt (ala american revolution). At the time, citizenry owning firearms was sufficient for a revolution to be successful. See 3rd amendment, as well. So, the 2nd amendment was really an escape clause for citizens if they no longer wish to support the government. It just happened to be written as a gun measure. Having a governmental database controlling gun ownership thus violates that intention.
jasonjei 10y ago
Hopefully, you don't own a car or motorcycle; you'll want to stick with bicycles, because the government already tracks your vehicle purchases. What about property purchases? Without a county domain registrar on titled property, it's your word versus somebody else's that you own your property. You won't want to buy real property since the government tracks that too (and for centuries) and it's publicly searchable. The government jackboots will say you don't own the land you stand on without that, just like the thugs of the InterNIC/ICANN do regularly with centralized DNS. In short, don't buy real property. You'll also not want to buy a plane ticket, as those are tracked as well. Don't open a bank account--your bank will regularly report about you, especially large transfers of money. Find a nice hole in the ground on your untitled real property and convert to metal. Or use Bitcoin if you trust the system enough. Definitely don't use a cell phone--they can find you.
- ctrlc-root 10y ago
  I use most of these in order to function in society. That does not preclude me from not wanting them to be tracked. As you so neatly pointed out the alternative is to not live at all.

by lwhalen 10y ago

Good. The gov't has no more a right to track my guns as they do my book purchases. "Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a gov't agency.

pjc50 10y ago

But you're OK with the car registration system? And the cell phone IMEI database? And the no-fly list? Edit: I should have been more general with the "you". Only the opposition to the gun database has succeeded. There's no general conversation about privacy; there's no coalition of pro-privacy orgs with a consistent view on what should and should not be stored in databases. Why is this?

DamnYuppie 10y ago
As someone who agrees with the OP I am definitely not a fan of the no-fly list and other centralized registration databases.
beachstartup 10y ago
> But you're OK with the car registration system? And the cell phone IMEI database? And the no-fly list? uh, did he say he was? i'm sorry, did i neglect to read half the article, or half his comment, where these things are mentioned?
unethical_ban 10y ago
Cell phone database is questionable, and cars are for those on the road. And I'm not liking the idea that in the near future, plate scanners will know where I'm going all the time. I should be able to move without the government knowing.

rimantas 10y ago

Of course, book is a deadly weapon.

jolynch 10y ago

People don't use books to kill, maim and disfigure other people, they use guns. There are zero logical reasons to prohibit a database that maps gun metadata to the gun record (search by name is actually detrimental to proper investigations). I've heard lots of emotional reasons, but I haven't heard a single well reasoned logical argument. Just a lot of reductio ad absurdum.

douche 10y ago
They can use books to inspire other people to kill, maim and disfigure other people.
- allemagne 10y ago
  Sure, buying an orange peel can result in death too. Guns just happen to be especially efficient at it.
  - hga 10y ago
    Mein Kampf, periodicals like Der Stürmer, The Communist Manifesto and the many other books like What Is to Be Done?, they were part of vastly more leveraged ways to end up killing people with guns, gas, or starvation/overwork than any single gun, or the collective guns in civilian hands, which, of course, weren't an issue in the disarmed populaces that were genocided in the 20th Century by the 10s, probably 100s of millions.
chris_va 10y ago
Well, not that I agree with it entirely, but here's my understanding of the argument (which might be entirely wrong): Going way back, the 2nd amendment entitles US citizens to own firearms because it's supposed to be a government for the people, by the people. If the people no longer support the government, they can revolt (ala american revolution). At the time, citizenry owning firearms was sufficient for a revolution to be successful. See 3rd amendment, as well. So, the 2nd amendment was really an escape clause for citizens if they no longer wish to support the government. It just happened to be written as a gun measure. Having a governmental database controlling gun ownership thus violates that intention.

jasonjei 10y ago

Hopefully, you don't own a car or motorcycle; you'll want to stick with bicycles, because the government already tracks your vehicle purchases. What about property purchases? Without a county domain registrar on titled property, it's your word versus somebody else's that you own your property. You won't want to buy real property since the government tracks that too (and for centuries) and it's publicly searchable. The government jackboots will say you don't own the land you stand on without that, just like the thugs of the InterNIC/ICANN do regularly with centralized DNS. In short, don't buy real property. You'll also not want to buy a plane ticket, as those are tracked as well. Don't open a bank account--your bank will regularly report about you, especially large transfers of money. Find a nice hole in the ground on your untitled real property and convert to metal. Or use Bitcoin if you trust the system enough. Definitely don't use a cell phone--they can find you.

ctrlc-root 10y ago
I use most of these in order to function in society. That does not preclude me from not wanting them to be tracked. As you so neatly pointed out the alternative is to not live at all.