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Iraq is a war zone. Thats the first thing people need to understand. Everyone is a civilian, but they could be the enemy. They don't wear formal uniforms. I

Iraq is a war zone. Thats the first thing people need to understand. Everyone is a civilian, but they could be the enemy. They don't wear formal uniforms. If you were in a War zone and your life was threatened, would you pull the trigger or would you wait to see if someone else is gonna pull the trigger first. War Zones are very worrisome places. You need your BASIC instincts to survive there. Most of those soldiers are using just that. The instinct to survive.

EliRivers 17y ago
I feel it should be pointed out that whilst what you say is probably an accurate depiction, it of course does not make it alright to murder non-combatants. That's not to say that this alleged video will show such things, of course.
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EliRivers 17y ago
Just as a point of discussion, history indicates that within a war zone, professionally trained soldiers tend to do better than those relying on BASIC instinct.
- ZeroGravitas 17y ago
  And one of those elements of training is conditioning to overcome the basic instinct that prevents people killing others even when their own life is threatened, according to West Point psychologist Lt. Col. Dave Grossman: http://www.killology.com/bio.htm http://www.killology.com/bio.htm
dsplittgerber 17y ago
At 04:36 in the video: "Just fuckin', once you get on 'em just open 'em up." They did not have a proper visual and just randomly started shooting at a guy with what looked like an RPG but was a camera. Now this is a war zone, agreed. But these guys were not under fire in their helicopter, they just started shooting at hard-to-make-out images.
- waterlesscloud 17y ago
  What's random about it? From the chatter, there's a ground force element moving in that direction. The pilots see a group of men gathered in the street, some of them undeniably carrying weapons. They see a man with a long tube crouching around a corner and pointing it down the street. There's a line "Yeah we had a guy shooting", indicating that fire had already come from this group, or at least the pilots thought it had. There's nothing random about it. They may have been wrong, but it wasn't random targeting of people walking around town. The van portion of the incident is more questionable. It sounds like they followed the rules they had, but those rules may not have been proper for this situation.
numbchuckskills 17y ago
"would you pull the trigger or would you wait to see if someone else is gonna pull the trigger first." If i was in an Apache attack helicopter loaded with weapons and armor hundreds of feet in the air, and the folks on the ground had what the soldiers suspected were AK-47s, and polos on, Yes, I'd probably wait for them to fire first.
mrtron 17y ago
War by definition: 1 a (1) : a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations Who is this war between? It quite simply is no longer a war. It is an attempt of forcing the western preference of 'stability' into a country that was intentionally destabilized by the US upon false pretenses of WMDs. edit: what are you in disagreement with?
GiraffeNecktie 17y ago
A couple of points. First, Iraq is NOT a war zone. Just because you have lots of soldiers running around and a few random terrorist bombings it does not constitute a "war". The war ended in 2003. Secondly, even if it was a war soldiers are expected to follow basic rules like "don't kill people for no reason". Third, there's no indication that anyone's life was being threatened. The only people who's survival was being threatened were one the ground. Certainly there was no threat to the crew of the helicopters who were standing well away from the ground.

EliRivers 17y ago

I feel it should be pointed out that whilst what you say is probably an accurate depiction, it of course does not make it alright to murder non-combatants. That's not to say that this alleged video will show such things, of course.

deleted 17y ago

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EliRivers 17y ago

Just as a point of discussion, history indicates that within a war zone, professionally trained soldiers tend to do better than those relying on BASIC instinct.

ZeroGravitas 17y ago
And one of those elements of training is conditioning to overcome the basic instinct that prevents people killing others even when their own life is threatened, according to West Point psychologist Lt. Col. Dave Grossman: http://www.killology.com/bio.htm http://www.killology.com/bio.htm

dsplittgerber 17y ago

At 04:36 in the video: "Just fuckin', once you get on 'em just open 'em up." They did not have a proper visual and just randomly started shooting at a guy with what looked like an RPG but was a camera. Now this is a war zone, agreed. But these guys were not under fire in their helicopter, they just started shooting at hard-to-make-out images.

waterlesscloud 17y ago
What's random about it? From the chatter, there's a ground force element moving in that direction. The pilots see a group of men gathered in the street, some of them undeniably carrying weapons. They see a man with a long tube crouching around a corner and pointing it down the street. There's a line "Yeah we had a guy shooting", indicating that fire had already come from this group, or at least the pilots thought it had. There's nothing random about it. They may have been wrong, but it wasn't random targeting of people walking around town. The van portion of the incident is more questionable. It sounds like they followed the rules they had, but those rules may not have been proper for this situation.

numbchuckskills 17y ago

"would you pull the trigger or would you wait to see if someone else is gonna pull the trigger first." If i was in an Apache attack helicopter loaded with weapons and armor hundreds of feet in the air, and the folks on the ground had what the soldiers suspected were AK-47s, and polos on, Yes, I'd probably wait for them to fire first.

mrtron 17y ago

War by definition: 1 a (1) : a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations Who is this war between? It quite simply is no longer a war. It is an attempt of forcing the western preference of 'stability' into a country that was intentionally destabilized by the US upon false pretenses of WMDs. edit: what are you in disagreement with?

GiraffeNecktie 17y ago

A couple of points. First, Iraq is NOT a war zone. Just because you have lots of soldiers running around and a few random terrorist bombings it does not constitute a "war". The war ended in 2003. Secondly, even if it was a war soldiers are expected to follow basic rules like "don't kill people for no reason". Third, there's no indication that anyone's life was being threatened. The only people who's survival was being threatened were one the ground. Certainly there was no threat to the crew of the helicopters who were standing well away from the ground.