3 ms·
> So they cannot be the same thing. That's because, philosophically, two objects must be identical in every property to be the same object, and constructability
by jhanschoo 10y ago
> So they cannot be the same thing. That's because, philosophically, two objects must be identical in every property to be the same object, and constructability is a property.
Mathematicians have proposed several different constructions of the reals. If you were familiar with, say, constructing the rationals from the integers or constructing the reals from the rationals, you would know that this is not a problem. One of the more straightforward constructions of rationals define a rational number as an equivalence class of tuples of integers, corresponding to the numerator and the denominator. We often use one of these tuples to represent a rational number, e.g. 2/3 or 4/6. And since they are in the same equivalence class, either alone is sufficient to represent the same rational number. This is despite the fact that the tuple 2/3 and the tuple 4/6 are different mathematical objects.
As for the definition of 0.999..., it's not what you think it is. There is a specific definition for infinitely repeating digits that is different from representations without repeating digits.
That is, the positive real number that 0.x... represents for all digits x is defined as L, where L is the supremum of the set containing 0, 0.x, 0.xx, 0.xxx, 0.xxxx, ...
A supremum L in E of a set S subsetof E is defined as follows: L is the smallest number in E such that L is greater than or equal to all numbers in S. I shall not prove here that L is unique, but it is. With respect to the reals and the set containing 0, 0.x, 0.xx, 0.xxx, the supremum of that set in the reals is 1.
My knowledge of the construction of the reals comes from Chapter 1 of Water Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysis, ISBN 0-07-085613-3, which you may be interested to read, but beware that it's considered a difficult read for beginners.
- kazinator 10y agoI completely agree with you, and understand all that. > L is the smallest number in E such that L is greater than or equal to all numbers in S. And note that this doesn't imply that L is in S! So here we have S = { 0, 0.x, 0.xx, 0.xxx, ... }. E is R, the set of reals. The smallest number in R greater than or equal to anything in S is 1. That doesn't mean 1 is in S. If 1 is not in S, then we're taking a notation based on condensing the names of the elements in S, like "0.x...", or 0.x with a bar over the x, and making that notation denote something not in S, namely 1. This doesn't appear incompatible with the limit-based construction. Are there instances in which this supremum approach toward continued decimals disagrees with the limit approach, in establishing the value?
- tgb 10y agoYes, that is exactly what that notation means, just as 0.1111... is not any of the numbers 0.1, 0.11,... Supremum of an increasing sequence of reals is equal to the limit of the sequence in all cases.
- jhanschoo 10y agoI think I was too hasty in replying to your post and misread and misunderstood the point you were trying to make. No, I don't think there's a difference.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]