4 ms·

That's an interesting point, which has a fairly obvious solution: train wingsuiters to find the stallpoint - and even stall their wingsuit - in controlled condi

by manarth 10y ago

That's an interesting point, which has a fairly obvious solution: train wingsuiters to find the stallpoint - and even stall their wingsuit - in controlled conditions, where they can safely recover from a stall.

underwater 10y ago
Can they really recover? There's really no margin for error when they're a couple of dozen feet off the ground.
- danielvf 10y ago
  Train while jumping out of aircraft, not off cliffs.
  - justinator 10y ago
    Please, name me one person who started base jumping off a cliff, and not jumping out of an aircraft.
    - frisco 10y ago
      While you're right that it's not very common, I know at least 3 (non-famous) people who did that. BASE and skydiving are pretty separate communities and there are a lot of people who make friends in base from cross over in things like climbing or snowboarding and don't do skydiving. Source: am a skydiver/base jumper
    - manarth 10y ago
      It's discussed in BASE-jumping forums, mostly for its historical value, and to answer the people who ask with all seriousness: "How can I learn to BASE-jump, without bothering to learn skydiving first". You'll also see it referenced on the websites of places that run BASE courses [1], where it's repeatedly acknowledged that it has been done in the past, but it's now seen as a reckless practice. You can still find people that will teach this way, but for the most part, it's underground, and described as a "deathcamp" [2][3][4]. [1] http://base-book.com/skydive-to-base-jump http://base-book.com/skydive-to-base-jump [2] http://www.basejumper.com/Articles/Getting_Into_BASE/Number_of_Skydives_806.html http://www.basejumper.com/Articles/Getting_Into_BASE/Number_... [3] http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/General_Skydiving_Discussions_F18/Deathcamp_BASE/Skydive_P2003436 http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/General_Skydiving... [4] http://erikroner.com/242/ http://erikroner.com/242/
- teraflop 10y ago
  The same is true of pilots. To land a plane you basically have to fly it right on the brink of stalling, and if you accidentally stall it a few seconds before touchdown, you're in big (though hopefully survivable) trouble. So it's very important to learn to recognize how the aircraft behaves in that transitional regime. Likewise, the idea here would be for wingsuit pilots to practice stalls and recovery while skydiving at a safe altitude. That way, when BASE jumping for real, they can recognize and prevent stalls before they happen so that recovery is unnecessary.
  - sebcat 10y ago
    A pilot can correct by giving more power. Someone in an unpowered suit with ~3:1 glide ratio starting to recognize a stall while flying over terrain is already dead.
    - arjunnarayan 10y ago
      Can you train them over water, so the stall is not fatal?
      - manarth 10y ago
        Train out of an aircraft…exit at 15000', and train down to 5000'. That would give plenty of time (and altitude) to recover from a stall, and safely deploy a parachute.
- imaginenore 10y ago
  Sometimes they can, but I wouldn't count on that happening reliably. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hKhofOF_zo&t=120 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hKhofOF_zo&t=120
  - manarth 10y ago
    Wow, what a video. "You know, fear is a super-important thing now. And without fear, you will die." "I'm actually pretty happy this happened. I think in the long run it saved my life." Mind you, he doesn't leave much margin for error in his come-back jump!
- Zuider 10y ago
  They could practice stalling via jumps from an airplane to get a feel for the limits of a wingsuit. As the article states, wingsuiting should be the last stage in a progression which begins with skydiving, not the first. Beginners are taking shortcuts on the road to necessary experience. The possibility of stalling should be obvious to anyone who has flown a kite or thrown a paper airplane. Inexperienced wingsuiters just seem to forget it. They are lured into trying to achieve the illusion of lift whereas an experienced practitioner would maintain speed.
sebcat 10y ago
People fly at max glide too close to terrain which leaves them with no options. If people instead flew fast, they could transfer that speed to lift if they find themselves in the corner, but if you're at max glide you can't really do much. Of couse, the main problem is people not flying within their limits, or giving themselves a good margin, but that's proximity flight by definition.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by manarth 10y ago

underwater 10y ago

Can they really recover? There's really no margin for error when they're a couple of dozen feet off the ground.

danielvf 10y ago
Train while jumping out of aircraft, not off cliffs.
- justinator 10y ago
  Please, name me one person who started base jumping off a cliff, and not jumping out of an aircraft.
  - frisco 10y ago
    While you're right that it's not very common, I know at least 3 (non-famous) people who did that. BASE and skydiving are pretty separate communities and there are a lot of people who make friends in base from cross over in things like climbing or snowboarding and don't do skydiving. Source: am a skydiver/base jumper
  - manarth 10y ago
    It's discussed in BASE-jumping forums, mostly for its historical value, and to answer the people who ask with all seriousness: "How can I learn to BASE-jump, without bothering to learn skydiving first". You'll also see it referenced on the websites of places that run BASE courses [1], where it's repeatedly acknowledged that it has been done in the past, but it's now seen as a reckless practice. You can still find people that will teach this way, but for the most part, it's underground, and described as a "deathcamp" [2][3][4]. [1] http://base-book.com/skydive-to-base-jump http://base-book.com/skydive-to-base-jump [2] http://www.basejumper.com/Articles/Getting_Into_BASE/Number_of_Skydives_806.html http://www.basejumper.com/Articles/Getting_Into_BASE/Number_... [3] http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/General_Skydiving_Discussions_F18/Deathcamp_BASE/Skydive_P2003436 http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/General_Skydiving... [4] http://erikroner.com/242/ http://erikroner.com/242/
teraflop 10y ago
The same is true of pilots. To land a plane you basically have to fly it right on the brink of stalling, and if you accidentally stall it a few seconds before touchdown, you're in big (though hopefully survivable) trouble. So it's very important to learn to recognize how the aircraft behaves in that transitional regime. Likewise, the idea here would be for wingsuit pilots to practice stalls and recovery while skydiving at a safe altitude. That way, when BASE jumping for real, they can recognize and prevent stalls before they happen so that recovery is unnecessary.
- sebcat 10y ago
  A pilot can correct by giving more power. Someone in an unpowered suit with ~3:1 glide ratio starting to recognize a stall while flying over terrain is already dead.
  - arjunnarayan 10y ago
    Can you train them over water, so the stall is not fatal?
    - manarth 10y ago
      Train out of an aircraft…exit at 15000', and train down to 5000'. That would give plenty of time (and altitude) to recover from a stall, and safely deploy a parachute.
imaginenore 10y ago
Sometimes they can, but I wouldn't count on that happening reliably. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hKhofOF_zo&t=120 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hKhofOF_zo&t=120
- manarth 10y ago
  Wow, what a video. "You know, fear is a super-important thing now. And without fear, you will die." "I'm actually pretty happy this happened. I think in the long run it saved my life." Mind you, he doesn't leave much margin for error in his come-back jump!
Zuider 10y ago
They could practice stalling via jumps from an airplane to get a feel for the limits of a wingsuit. As the article states, wingsuiting should be the last stage in a progression which begins with skydiving, not the first. Beginners are taking shortcuts on the road to necessary experience. The possibility of stalling should be obvious to anyone who has flown a kite or thrown a paper airplane. Inexperienced wingsuiters just seem to forget it. They are lured into trying to achieve the illusion of lift whereas an experienced practitioner would maintain speed.

sebcat 10y ago

People fly at max glide too close to terrain which leaves them with no options. If people instead flew fast, they could transfer that speed to lift if they find themselves in the corner, but if you're at max glide you can't really do much. Of couse, the main problem is people not flying within their limits, or giving themselves a good margin, but that's proximity flight by definition.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]