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I think the Nazis can serve as iconic villains mainly because a lot of their value system seems so alien compared to what we have in the western world today. B

I think the Nazis can serve as iconic villains mainly because a lot of their value system seems so alien compared to what we have in the western world today. Besides, many people like to believe they are the “good guys”.

lisper 10y ago
Everyone thinks they're the good guys. Even the ISIS folks think they are the good guys, that they are fighting the good fight against the infidel for the greater glory of God. That's the whole point. That's the reason that, "It's OK because we're the good guys" is not a valid argument, because everyone applies it to themselves. "Sending people back who came illegally [is OK]" is a thinly disguised argument of that same form because we are the ones who decide what is legal. In that respect we are like the Nazis. They thought that what they were doing was OK because it was "legal", because they were "just following orders." Well, no, it was not OK. And deporting people who grew up here "illegally" through no fault of their own but rather because their adoptive parents didn't fill out the right paperwork and xenophobia happens to be running amok is likewise not OK no matter what the law says.
- michaelbuddy 10y ago
  just because somebody wants laws enforced doesn't make them 'xenophobic' And to say having immigration laws with consequences means the U.S. is like the Nazi's? I mean at this point there's really no point to consider you as thinking rationally.
  - lisper 10y ago
    > just because somebody wants laws enforced doesn't make them 'xenophobic' That is certainly true, but Trump has said much more than just calling for law-and-order (which, by the way, is a very loaded term in American politics: the phrase was first used by Richard Nixon as a deliberate code phrase intended to signify solidarity with southern white racists in the 60's). He has also, for example, called out Mexicans for being "rapists" and called for a "total ban on Muslims entering the U.S." Comments like those are xenophobic. The combination of xenophobia and law-and-order is very reminiscent of early Nazi rhetoric. That doesn't necessarily make Trump a Nazi, but it does make it not entirely unreasonable to raise the question.
    - michaelbuddy 10y ago
      Law and order is not a 'loaded' term. That's just foolishness to think so.
      - lisper 10y ago
        It is, and I even told you why. Here is some further evidence: http://www.npr.org/2016/07/28/487560886/is-trumps-call-for-law-and-order-a-coded-racial-message http://www.npr.org/2016/07/28/487560886/is-trumps-call-for-l... Trump probably did not intend "law and order" to be a coded racist message. His profound ignorance almost certainly does extend to this branch of American political history. But that's irrelevant. A loaded term is loaded whether or not the speaker intends it to be. Nixon denied it too: "Nixon publicly denied that the phrase was a code for racism — the very accusation implied a "reverse racism," he said, as if the critics were suggesting that "the Negroes" didn't want law and order, too. But the message was clear enough in Nixon's references to a "city jungle" that threatened to swallow the affluent suburbs. His TV ads showed a middle-aged white woman walking nervously down a city street at night, where the assailants who might be lurking in the shadows presumably weren't hippies or demonstrators."

lisper 10y ago

Everyone thinks they're the good guys. Even the ISIS folks think they are the good guys, that they are fighting the good fight against the infidel for the greater glory of God. That's the whole point. That's the reason that, "It's OK because we're the good guys" is not a valid argument, because everyone applies it to themselves. "Sending people back who came illegally [is OK]" is a thinly disguised argument of that same form because we are the ones who decide what is legal. In that respect we are like the Nazis. They thought that what they were doing was OK because it was "legal", because they were "just following orders." Well, no, it was not OK. And deporting people who grew up here "illegally" through no fault of their own but rather because their adoptive parents didn't fill out the right paperwork and xenophobia happens to be running amok is likewise not OK no matter what the law says.

michaelbuddy 10y ago
just because somebody wants laws enforced doesn't make them 'xenophobic' And to say having immigration laws with consequences means the U.S. is like the Nazi's? I mean at this point there's really no point to consider you as thinking rationally.
- lisper 10y ago
  > just because somebody wants laws enforced doesn't make them 'xenophobic' That is certainly true, but Trump has said much more than just calling for law-and-order (which, by the way, is a very loaded term in American politics: the phrase was first used by Richard Nixon as a deliberate code phrase intended to signify solidarity with southern white racists in the 60's). He has also, for example, called out Mexicans for being "rapists" and called for a "total ban on Muslims entering the U.S." Comments like those are xenophobic. The combination of xenophobia and law-and-order is very reminiscent of early Nazi rhetoric. That doesn't necessarily make Trump a Nazi, but it does make it not entirely unreasonable to raise the question.
  - michaelbuddy 10y ago
    Law and order is not a 'loaded' term. That's just foolishness to think so.
    - lisper 10y ago
      It is, and I even told you why. Here is some further evidence: http://www.npr.org/2016/07/28/487560886/is-trumps-call-for-law-and-order-a-coded-racial-message http://www.npr.org/2016/07/28/487560886/is-trumps-call-for-l... Trump probably did not intend "law and order" to be a coded racist message. His profound ignorance almost certainly does extend to this branch of American political history. But that's irrelevant. A loaded term is loaded whether or not the speaker intends it to be. Nixon denied it too: "Nixon publicly denied that the phrase was a code for racism — the very accusation implied a "reverse racism," he said, as if the critics were suggesting that "the Negroes" didn't want law and order, too. But the message was clear enough in Nixon's references to a "city jungle" that threatened to swallow the affluent suburbs. His TV ads showed a middle-aged white woman walking nervously down a city street at night, where the assailants who might be lurking in the shadows presumably weren't hippies or demonstrators."