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I wrote some really effective data recovery software a decade ago. Before I knew it governments around the world were buying it up in droves. I then got pushed

by feelix 10y ago

I wrote some really effective data recovery software a decade ago. Before I knew it governments around the world were buying it up in droves. I then got pushed (not by the governments, but by my partner at the company I had) to write a special forensics edition, that does a byte-by-byte scan of the source disk rather than a block-by-block scan, which would extract embedded files out of a hard disk and basically ensure that nothing would be missed. That code eventually got a big fancy "forensics" UI wrapped around it with a bunch of other functionality such as logging the process, and it got sold for $1k / copy. It would sell upwards of 80 copies at a time in a single batch. It was very profitable (though I personally did not see much of that profit). I always felt very uneasy about it and I stopped developing that line of software even though at this point I could get ~50% of the profit if I were to continue it. I had no idea what it was actually being used for all of the time and I had no way to find out. I do know however that some of the time it was used for good, to catch people distributing child pornography and so forth, however I don't know what percentage of the time it was used for that kind of thing, and I'm also aware that that is the justification that is used for a lot of surveillance. Philosophically I believe in counter-survelliance more than surveillance, because I'm pro privacy and pro citizen empowerment rather than the other way around, I think the balance of power has gotten out of whack as this article nicely illustrates.

imaginenore 10y ago
You shouldn't feel bad. If something like that is technically possible, and there's a demand, someone will write that code. The only two ways to fight it (that I can think of) are: 1) Make it technically impossible (open firmware, open hardware) 2) Make it illegal There's of course a third way - not give a crap, and just let them watch you.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > If something like that is technically possible, and there's a demand, someone will write that code. That isn't necessarily true, though it's an easy fig leaf to hide behind when you're doing something that is unique and that helps the dark side. I've heard it said by people that were actively developing malware and spam software.
- drdaeman 10y ago
  > The only two ways to fight it Actually, I think both technological and legal measures are always necessary. One just doesn't work well without the other. (Personally, I'm leaning towards "but technical measures first", though - as tech is much more agile than legal stuff.)
colejohnson66 10y ago
Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind, what is it called?
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  My money is on test????/photo???.
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    Not that I care for the karma but why is it being downvoted ?
    - function_seven 10y ago
      I think because the comment is confusing. Are the question marks a text encoding error?
    - paxcoder 10y ago
      I reckon people find it uninformative. If not, then I'd guess the exact opposite. You should know which.
    - gaur 10y ago
      As the sister comment says, it's because your comment doesn't make sense. What does "test????/photo????" mean?
      - johnchristopher 10y ago
        Well, it's a guessing game to know what company the parent parent is referring to and there are two well known recovery software but I didn't want to give out the name so others could keep on guessing. So I just wildcard masked the thing.
      - davb 10y ago
        It's an obfuscated reference to a popular open source data recovery toolset. I think the parent was trying to avoid potentially "outing" GP against their wishes, by making a vague reference that some might get.
aluhut 10y ago
With your skills, you could help with the balance. Out here and with your karma account ;)
drdaeman 10y ago
If I got it correctly, unlike the software in the article - yours wasn't a malware that stealthily does something unbeknownst to the legitimate user, or something that even impacts the security measures user has set up. It was a genuine and honest data analysis tool, scanning the drive one already has full access to. Tools like yours (cracked/warez - even a $100 bar was impossible for a schoolkid in late '90s/early '00s Russia, not to say about $1K+ price points) and articles on filesystem internals had helped me to recover my own data from drive failures a couple of times. So, thank you. And I really believe that would've anyone taken a possession of my notes and inspected them with a magnifying glass - the problem would be anything (me leaving the notes, someone taking the notes, ...) but that someone made the glass.
nindalf 10y ago
I've read a story similar to yours on HN where someone explained that they made passive income off a data recovery tool. They also said that it wouldn't work on SSDs, so it was becoming less relevant with time. Do the forensic techniques you implemented work on SSDs? Also, were you the person who posted that earlier?
- feelix 10y ago
  Yes, that's me. Hacker News is the only place I feel I can talk about this kind of thing so it's cathartic. And no, it doesnt work on SSD's. They're black boxes. However I think data recovery on them is possible with hardware. It's the controller that returns 0's after it has been sent the command to TRIM some free space.
zer0gravity 10y ago
In my view, much grief can be avoided if people that have a mind able to build things that can have an impact for better or for worse, will use that mind to also control how those things will be used. When engineering and philosophy are divorced, bad things happen. Unfortunatelly that may not even be enough. Intelligence doesn't have morals, and when it is employed with a predatory mindset, there may not be escape for the "prey" without a fight.. The arms race may be a mechanism of evolotion. You either accept it, or dissapear..

by feelix 10y ago

imaginenore 10y ago

You shouldn't feel bad. If something like that is technically possible, and there's a demand, someone will write that code. The only two ways to fight it (that I can think of) are: 1) Make it technically impossible (open firmware, open hardware) 2) Make it illegal There's of course a third way - not give a crap, and just let them watch you.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jacquesm 10y ago
> If something like that is technically possible, and there's a demand, someone will write that code. That isn't necessarily true, though it's an easy fig leaf to hide behind when you're doing something that is unique and that helps the dark side. I've heard it said by people that were actively developing malware and spam software.
drdaeman 10y ago
> The only two ways to fight it Actually, I think both technological and legal measures are always necessary. One just doesn't work well without the other. (Personally, I'm leaning towards "but technical measures first", though - as tech is much more agile than legal stuff.)

colejohnson66 10y ago

Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind, what is it called?

johnchristopher 10y ago
My money is on test????/photo???.
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  Not that I care for the karma but why is it being downvoted ?
  - function_seven 10y ago
    I think because the comment is confusing. Are the question marks a text encoding error?
  - paxcoder 10y ago
    I reckon people find it uninformative. If not, then I'd guess the exact opposite. You should know which.
  - gaur 10y ago
    As the sister comment says, it's because your comment doesn't make sense. What does "test????/photo????" mean?
    - johnchristopher 10y ago
      Well, it's a guessing game to know what company the parent parent is referring to and there are two well known recovery software but I didn't want to give out the name so others could keep on guessing. So I just wildcard masked the thing.
    - davb 10y ago
      It's an obfuscated reference to a popular open source data recovery toolset. I think the parent was trying to avoid potentially "outing" GP against their wishes, by making a vague reference that some might get.

aluhut 10y ago

With your skills, you could help with the balance. Out here and with your karma account ;)

drdaeman 10y ago

If I got it correctly, unlike the software in the article - yours wasn't a malware that stealthily does something unbeknownst to the legitimate user, or something that even impacts the security measures user has set up. It was a genuine and honest data analysis tool, scanning the drive one already has full access to. Tools like yours (cracked/warez - even a $100 bar was impossible for a schoolkid in late '90s/early '00s Russia, not to say about $1K+ price points) and articles on filesystem internals had helped me to recover my own data from drive failures a couple of times. So, thank you. And I really believe that would've anyone taken a possession of my notes and inspected them with a magnifying glass - the problem would be anything (me leaving the notes, someone taking the notes, ...) but that someone made the glass.

nindalf 10y ago

I've read a story similar to yours on HN where someone explained that they made passive income off a data recovery tool. They also said that it wouldn't work on SSDs, so it was becoming less relevant with time. Do the forensic techniques you implemented work on SSDs? Also, were you the person who posted that earlier?

feelix 10y ago
Yes, that's me. Hacker News is the only place I feel I can talk about this kind of thing so it's cathartic. And no, it doesnt work on SSD's. They're black boxes. However I think data recovery on them is possible with hardware. It's the controller that returns 0's after it has been sent the command to TRIM some free space.

zer0gravity 10y ago

In my view, much grief can be avoided if people that have a mind able to build things that can have an impact for better or for worse, will use that mind to also control how those things will be used. When engineering and philosophy are divorced, bad things happen. Unfortunatelly that may not even be enough. Intelligence doesn't have morals, and when it is employed with a predatory mindset, there may not be escape for the "prey" without a fight.. The arms race may be a mechanism of evolotion. You either accept it, or dissapear..