4 ms·

The more bizarre part is how the various federal agencies do not coordinate. For example, the "fear they will be unable to collect Social Security benefits the

by jzwinck 10y ago

The more bizarre part is how the various federal agencies do not coordinate. For example, the "fear they will be unable to collect Social Security benefits they have paid into." This means these people are paying taxes to the IRS who collects SS money from them yet they are "not eligible" to work in the US. This is "impossible" but the tax man doesn't ask questions when people send him money. I think if someone has paid, say, 20% of their total lifetime earnings, with a minimum of $50K over ten years, in taxes to the US government, and they have not committed any crime, they should be given citizenship. This gives the USG ten years to find anyone they'd rather not have in the country, and let them leave before they contribute more than their fair share to a country that rejects them.

lifeisstillgood 10y ago
I like the idea, but it firstly makes "purchasing citizenship" a thing (as if it is not already) and it has an underlying principle that is more useful - if you spend ten years openly in a country and are not a criminal, then you get to stay, which is a much better principle.
puranjay 10y ago
The problem with that is that it penalizes legal residents waiting for their citizenship My brother has been in the US for nearly 20 years. Started out as a grad student, then as a H1-B. Took him more than 10 years just to get a green card, then 5 years more to be eligible for citizenship. All this while, he must have paid several hundred thousand dollars in taxes (6+ figure income over 15 years) Why should another immigrant get the same benefits as him faster than he could by paying even less in taxes?
- pkaler 10y ago
  > Why should another immigrant get the same benefits as him faster than he could by paying even less in taxes? Because it's not a zero-sum game. One person's right to citizenship does not erode another person's right to citizenship.
- ics 10y ago
  "...with a minimum of $50K over ten years, in taxes to the US government, and they have not committed any crime, they should be given citizenship..." In this hypothetical scenario would your brother not have paid $50k and been granted citizenship much sooner than the other?
- linkregister 10y ago
  > penalizes legal residents waiting for their citizenship How does another person receiving a benefit penalize your brother? By the same logic, we should all insist on vicious assaults on new military recruits, because that's how it was done years ago. As a society we should seek to improve the way we treat people, maximizing practical utility (tax-paying illegal immigrants are benefiting society) and seeking fairness. Chasing fairness as a primary goal is a fruitless endeavor. I think it's awful for both your brother and society that he was required to wait so long to get his citizenship. Should we repeat the same mistakes out of a misguided attempt at fairness?

by jzwinck 10y ago

lifeisstillgood 10y ago

I like the idea, but it firstly makes "purchasing citizenship" a thing (as if it is not already) and it has an underlying principle that is more useful - if you spend ten years openly in a country and are not a criminal, then you get to stay, which is a much better principle.

puranjay 10y ago

The problem with that is that it penalizes legal residents waiting for their citizenship My brother has been in the US for nearly 20 years. Started out as a grad student, then as a H1-B. Took him more than 10 years just to get a green card, then 5 years more to be eligible for citizenship. All this while, he must have paid several hundred thousand dollars in taxes (6+ figure income over 15 years) Why should another immigrant get the same benefits as him faster than he could by paying even less in taxes?

pkaler 10y ago
> Why should another immigrant get the same benefits as him faster than he could by paying even less in taxes? Because it's not a zero-sum game. One person's right to citizenship does not erode another person's right to citizenship.
ics 10y ago
"...with a minimum of $50K over ten years, in taxes to the US government, and they have not committed any crime, they should be given citizenship..." In this hypothetical scenario would your brother not have paid $50k and been granted citizenship much sooner than the other?
linkregister 10y ago
> penalizes legal residents waiting for their citizenship How does another person receiving a benefit penalize your brother? By the same logic, we should all insist on vicious assaults on new military recruits, because that's how it was done years ago. As a society we should seek to improve the way we treat people, maximizing practical utility (tax-paying illegal immigrants are benefiting society) and seeking fairness. Chasing fairness as a primary goal is a fruitless endeavor. I think it's awful for both your brother and society that he was required to wait so long to get his citizenship. Should we repeat the same mistakes out of a misguided attempt at fairness?