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Perhaps it may seem that way from your frame of reference just like how this person may interpret Feminism in the way stated from their frame of reference, but

by Dellort 17y ago

Perhaps it may seem that way from your frame of reference just like how this person may interpret Feminism in the way stated from their frame of reference, but I always withhold judgment when there is insufficient information present; It is better to perform further inquiry than to misinterpret. I believe you are making a mistake by speaking for all women, by stating that "HN, and the wider hacker culture, is often unwelcoming to women". In such matters we can only speak for ourselves, unless there is some official consensus to refer to more credible than what oneself might believe to be the general opinion; That is, a reliable source. I myself do not care what gender people have here; To me that is an attribute that simply does not exist in these contexts.

dgabriel 17y ago
This person meant to insult me. There is really no positive spin you can make on that comment. I didn't bring up feminism, nor did I make anything like a claim that men and women are biologically identical. He made up some things, and then he painted me as a member of some bizarre cult. If he revisits this thread, it will likely be to insult me again. Perhaps he will not. That would be nice. And you may not have meant your comment here to be dismissive and condescending, but you are basically telling me that this is all in my head, and I should be quiet. I counter that I am far from the only woman with this opinion, and you have not paid close attention (because why would you? you aren't a woman, this doesn't generally affect you). In any case, this is not the place to debate that topic. I spoke up, and I got insulted for it, but it's all good. If you are truly interested in learning more, please refer to the following links, and feel free to contact me by email if you have questions. Otherwise, enjoy your day. Recent issue at a Rails conference: http://www.ultrasaurus.com/sarahblog/2009/04/gender-and-sex-at-gogaruco/ http://www.ultrasaurus.com/sarahblog/2009/04/gender-and-sex-... A PDF of slides about women in FOSS you may find interesting: http://valerieaurora.org/review/flosspols.pdf http://valerieaurora.org/review/flosspols.pdf
- Dellort 17y ago
  Again you display that you easily assume in place of providing evidence. You assume he meant to insult you, but how can we know unless he explicitly states so? You somehow interpret what I said as telling you to be quiet, but how can what I said be interpreted as anything else than "please provide sources if a general consensus like this exists". Furthermore you make assumptions about my gender, of which I have revealed no information. I think you should give people the benefit of the doubt before you decide to attack them or decide that they meant to insult you. Of course you are free to interpret as you want, but I warn you: Confirmation bias can be a real hindrance in seeing the truth.
  - dgabriel 17y ago
    In the course of this conversation, I am the only one who has been attacked. If you can tell me a way I can interpret that comment that is not insulting, I'd be happy to hear it. I have been quite civil, I have presented two sources and could procure more, but I am done with this thread. I know that my opinions on such things are unpopular here, and I do not expect to be lauded or reach consensus. "Confirmation bias can be a real hindrance in seeing the truth." If you want to think that's what this is, that I'm a lone woman with a chip on my shoulder, if that makes you feel better, then please disregard the sources I posted earlier.
    - Dellort 17y ago
      I can't see how you've been attacked, unless you're a feminist. I don't know if it's insulting in general or insulting to you. It wouldn't be insulting to you if it wasn't insulting to you. That last part is a straw man because you did not provide evidence for your claim that "HN, and the wider hacker culture, is often unwelcoming to women" at the time you made that claim. Also you should clarify if you mean "all women", "some women" or "one woman" by "women". In any case I strongly suspect you have not closely examined my name.
      - dgabriel 17y ago
        You win. :)

by Dellort 17y ago

dgabriel 17y ago

This person meant to insult me. There is really no positive spin you can make on that comment. I didn't bring up feminism, nor did I make anything like a claim that men and women are biologically identical. He made up some things, and then he painted me as a member of some bizarre cult. If he revisits this thread, it will likely be to insult me again. Perhaps he will not. That would be nice. And you may not have meant your comment here to be dismissive and condescending, but you are basically telling me that this is all in my head, and I should be quiet. I counter that I am far from the only woman with this opinion, and you have not paid close attention (because why would you? you aren't a woman, this doesn't generally affect you). In any case, this is not the place to debate that topic. I spoke up, and I got insulted for it, but it's all good. If you are truly interested in learning more, please refer to the following links, and feel free to contact me by email if you have questions. Otherwise, enjoy your day. Recent issue at a Rails conference: http://www.ultrasaurus.com/sarahblog/2009/04/gender-and-sex-at-gogaruco/ http://www.ultrasaurus.com/sarahblog/2009/04/gender-and-sex-... A PDF of slides about women in FOSS you may find interesting: http://valerieaurora.org/review/flosspols.pdf http://valerieaurora.org/review/flosspols.pdf

Dellort 17y ago
Again you display that you easily assume in place of providing evidence. You assume he meant to insult you, but how can we know unless he explicitly states so? You somehow interpret what I said as telling you to be quiet, but how can what I said be interpreted as anything else than "please provide sources if a general consensus like this exists". Furthermore you make assumptions about my gender, of which I have revealed no information. I think you should give people the benefit of the doubt before you decide to attack them or decide that they meant to insult you. Of course you are free to interpret as you want, but I warn you: Confirmation bias can be a real hindrance in seeing the truth.
- dgabriel 17y ago
  In the course of this conversation, I am the only one who has been attacked. If you can tell me a way I can interpret that comment that is not insulting, I'd be happy to hear it. I have been quite civil, I have presented two sources and could procure more, but I am done with this thread. I know that my opinions on such things are unpopular here, and I do not expect to be lauded or reach consensus. "Confirmation bias can be a real hindrance in seeing the truth." If you want to think that's what this is, that I'm a lone woman with a chip on my shoulder, if that makes you feel better, then please disregard the sources I posted earlier.
  - Dellort 17y ago
    I can't see how you've been attacked, unless you're a feminist. I don't know if it's insulting in general or insulting to you. It wouldn't be insulting to you if it wasn't insulting to you. That last part is a straw man because you did not provide evidence for your claim that "HN, and the wider hacker culture, is often unwelcoming to women" at the time you made that claim. Also you should clarify if you mean "all women", "some women" or "one woman" by "women". In any case I strongly suspect you have not closely examined my name.
    - dgabriel 17y ago
      You win. :)