4 ms·

In the Swamps, Archaeologists Are Finding How Fugitive Slaves Kept Their Freedom

66 points by benbreen 10y ago

vorotato 10y ago
Is hacker news just a general news site or a programming/tech site?
- dquigley 10y ago
  I enjoy these types of articles because they show a historical, non-digital approach to "hacking" the system. Or put another way, escaping the system that wasn't treating them justly. But I can appreciate that some who want HN to remain strictly tech focused.
- djtriptych 10y ago
  News that hackers may find interesting. Not limited to tech, which a reading of the first page will usually reveal. Are you arguing that archeology should be off limits?
- wineisfine 10y ago
  I keep finding great non-tech articles here on HN. It's a bit of intentional serendipity, sorta. The other day an article led me to Atlas Obscura, great find.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- jMyles 10y ago
  Neither. The guidelines may serve to shine some light: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- rdtsc 10y ago
  Why do you ask? Do you want it to be one, the other or just curious?
  - vorotato 10y ago
    Mostly curious, and I got my answer and it only cost a few rep :P.
was_boring 10y ago
Archaeology is one of those sciences that is desperate need of attention from CS. While there have been many advances, they (generally speaking) are still at least 10 years behind the technology curve and lack the knowledge required to really leverage the advances that have come. The entire field is ripe for the picking for cross collaboration of people who can bring technical skills to "big data" and other problems.
- jdavis703 10y ago
  Can you elaborate more on specific scenarios you've seen where big data or CS techniques would improve research? I've always thought of archaeology and history as being more anecdotal endeavours, which might indicate a certain ignorance of these fields on my end.
  - benbreen 10y ago
    I'd love to hear more too. It's funny, both archaeology and history are indeed highly anecdotal in many ways, but both disciplines have become well established enough by now that the anecdotes have started to become quite numerous. I.e., we probably have at least 300 to 400 scholarly monographs written about individual towns in the medieval and early modern era, and if we could scrape the data about, say, farming yields or criminal trials or what have you from all of those studies, suddenly we'd be dealing with thousands or tens of thousands of data points.
  - Joof 10y ago
    Took an archaeology into once and it's pretty clear they do analysis on all types of data. All artifacts are collected and meticulously tested for a variety of things, soil samples are taken and so on. Some poorly informed ideas: Artifacts of various make and size could be placed in history and culture by neural networks. We could guess the locations of undiscovered sites. We could also analyze cultural trends in cultural anthropology and relate cultures to each other. Socially speaking, a prof of mine studied African American representations in media and sentiment analysis on images could have helped him sift through that data.
gallamine 10y ago
I've spent all of my life driving through this swamp to visit the Outer Banks of NC for summer vacations. It's a beautiful, dreadful area. I knew it was a refuge for American soldiers during the American Revolutionary War, but I didn't know about the history of fugitive slaves there. It's nearly impossible to imagine a life knowing you couldn't leave your island-in-a-swamp for risk of being hunted like an animal.
spraak 10y ago
I understand the context, but 'fugitive slaves' bothers me. I'd like to think more in terms of 'people who escaped slavery', as no one is inherently a slave - it is only a condition forced by someone else, and so a 'fugitive' is too from the perspective of a slave master. If someone were held in slavery, then escaped into hiding, and then slavery were abolished, would they still be responsible for their 'crime'? It is written that 'slaves were captured from west Africa' (not in this article, but in general topics about slavery) - No! PEOPLE were captured and ENSLAVED. It's a simple change in how things are phrased. Edit: I'm being highly pedantic for a reason. The way we phrase ideas and use language shapes how we feel about something. If we can feel a more human connection to these events, I believe we can have more empathy.
- djtriptych 10y ago
  They were fugitives under the law at the time. Just as someone who escapes prison today is a fugitive. I think it's a useful term, reflecting the law of that time (and hopefully reminding us of our capacity to create legal oppression). I'm sure there are fugitives today who committed "crimes" that some of us don't find objectionable at all.
  - steveeq1 10y ago
    snowden comes to mind.
  - spraak 10y ago
    Right, like I said: > I understand the context, ... So yes, at the time. But why do you think it is a useful term, when 'people who escaped from slavery', while not as succinct, communicates both the original situation AND the modern moral considerations? > I'm sure there are fugitives today who committed "crimes" that some of us don't find objectionable at all. That's what I mean - as I mentioned, I'm being very pedantic here for a specific reason. I don't advocate ignoring the situation of the past, but amending our current speech.
    - Bluestrike2 10y ago
jaredandrews 10y ago
Very interesting article, I had heard nothing about this previously. I am going to be in N.C. sometime soon, I will have to add the swamp to my destination list. I was recently thinking about what my life would be like if I grew up in Europe in the Middle Ages. Statistically, it is likely that I would have had a poor, unsatisfying life (maybe this interpretation is incorrect?). But lets say I somehow processed the same attitude that I do today, I almost certainly would have disapeared into the vast wilderness. From what I could tell though not many made that choice. But perhaps they just weren't documented? Is there a term for these "off the grid" societies that have existed throughout time? I would certainly like to learn more about them...
- cmarschner 10y ago
  Statistically, if you were dropped in a random country today, you would still likely lead a poor, unsatisfying life.
  - wineisfine 10y ago
    Many "poor" people, not necessarily have an unsatisfing life. Take some random tribe in South America: poor yes, but very likely to be happy
threepipeproblm 10y ago
The Great Dismal Swamp, the Fire Swamp, and the Bog of Eternal Stench... great swamps in history.

66 points by benbreen 10y ago

vorotato 10y ago

Is hacker news just a general news site or a programming/tech site?

dquigley 10y ago
I enjoy these types of articles because they show a historical, non-digital approach to "hacking" the system. Or put another way, escaping the system that wasn't treating them justly. But I can appreciate that some who want HN to remain strictly tech focused.
djtriptych 10y ago
News that hackers may find interesting. Not limited to tech, which a reading of the first page will usually reveal. Are you arguing that archeology should be off limits?
wineisfine 10y ago
I keep finding great non-tech articles here on HN. It's a bit of intentional serendipity, sorta. The other day an article led me to Atlas Obscura, great find.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jMyles 10y ago
Neither. The guidelines may serve to shine some light: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
rdtsc 10y ago
Why do you ask? Do you want it to be one, the other or just curious?
- vorotato 10y ago
  Mostly curious, and I got my answer and it only cost a few rep :P.

was_boring 10y ago

Archaeology is one of those sciences that is desperate need of attention from CS. While there have been many advances, they (generally speaking) are still at least 10 years behind the technology curve and lack the knowledge required to really leverage the advances that have come. The entire field is ripe for the picking for cross collaboration of people who can bring technical skills to "big data" and other problems.

jdavis703 10y ago
Can you elaborate more on specific scenarios you've seen where big data or CS techniques would improve research? I've always thought of archaeology and history as being more anecdotal endeavours, which might indicate a certain ignorance of these fields on my end.
- benbreen 10y ago
  I'd love to hear more too. It's funny, both archaeology and history are indeed highly anecdotal in many ways, but both disciplines have become well established enough by now that the anecdotes have started to become quite numerous. I.e., we probably have at least 300 to 400 scholarly monographs written about individual towns in the medieval and early modern era, and if we could scrape the data about, say, farming yields or criminal trials or what have you from all of those studies, suddenly we'd be dealing with thousands or tens of thousands of data points.
- Joof 10y ago
  Took an archaeology into once and it's pretty clear they do analysis on all types of data. All artifacts are collected and meticulously tested for a variety of things, soil samples are taken and so on. Some poorly informed ideas: Artifacts of various make and size could be placed in history and culture by neural networks. We could guess the locations of undiscovered sites. We could also analyze cultural trends in cultural anthropology and relate cultures to each other. Socially speaking, a prof of mine studied African American representations in media and sentiment analysis on images could have helped him sift through that data.

gallamine 10y ago

I've spent all of my life driving through this swamp to visit the Outer Banks of NC for summer vacations. It's a beautiful, dreadful area. I knew it was a refuge for American soldiers during the American Revolutionary War, but I didn't know about the history of fugitive slaves there. It's nearly impossible to imagine a life knowing you couldn't leave your island-in-a-swamp for risk of being hunted like an animal.

spraak 10y ago

I understand the context, but 'fugitive slaves' bothers me. I'd like to think more in terms of 'people who escaped slavery', as no one is inherently a slave - it is only a condition forced by someone else, and so a 'fugitive' is too from the perspective of a slave master. If someone were held in slavery, then escaped into hiding, and then slavery were abolished, would they still be responsible for their 'crime'? It is written that 'slaves were captured from west Africa' (not in this article, but in general topics about slavery) - No! PEOPLE were captured and ENSLAVED. It's a simple change in how things are phrased. Edit: I'm being highly pedantic for a reason. The way we phrase ideas and use language shapes how we feel about something. If we can feel a more human connection to these events, I believe we can have more empathy.

djtriptych 10y ago
They were fugitives under the law at the time. Just as someone who escapes prison today is a fugitive. I think it's a useful term, reflecting the law of that time (and hopefully reminding us of our capacity to create legal oppression). I'm sure there are fugitives today who committed "crimes" that some of us don't find objectionable at all.
- steveeq1 10y ago
  snowden comes to mind.
- spraak 10y ago
  Right, like I said: > I understand the context, ... So yes, at the time. But why do you think it is a useful term, when 'people who escaped from slavery', while not as succinct, communicates both the original situation AND the modern moral considerations? > I'm sure there are fugitives today who committed "crimes" that some of us don't find objectionable at all. That's what I mean - as I mentioned, I'm being very pedantic here for a specific reason. I don't advocate ignoring the situation of the past, but amending our current speech.
  - Bluestrike2 10y ago

jaredandrews 10y ago

Very interesting article, I had heard nothing about this previously. I am going to be in N.C. sometime soon, I will have to add the swamp to my destination list. I was recently thinking about what my life would be like if I grew up in Europe in the Middle Ages. Statistically, it is likely that I would have had a poor, unsatisfying life (maybe this interpretation is incorrect?). But lets say I somehow processed the same attitude that I do today, I almost certainly would have disapeared into the vast wilderness. From what I could tell though not many made that choice. But perhaps they just weren't documented? Is there a term for these "off the grid" societies that have existed throughout time? I would certainly like to learn more about them...

cmarschner 10y ago
Statistically, if you were dropped in a random country today, you would still likely lead a poor, unsatisfying life.
- wineisfine 10y ago
  Many "poor" people, not necessarily have an unsatisfing life. Take some random tribe in South America: poor yes, but very likely to be happy

threepipeproblm 10y ago

The Great Dismal Swamp, the Fire Swamp, and the Bog of Eternal Stench... great swamps in history.