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I am not a lawyer, but criminal culpability has everything to do with state of mind / mens rea. This is why "murder" is a crime but accidental homicide is not,

I am not a lawyer, but criminal culpability has everything to do with state of mind / mens rea. This is why "murder" is a crime but accidental homicide is not, even though in both cases the same actions might have led to the same consequences. "State secrets" is also one thing, "classified material" is another thing.

nommm-nommm 10y ago
Accidental homicide isn't a crime? I thought that was what involuntary manslaughter was?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- gnarbarian 10y ago
  IANAL. It depends on who is at fault. If you are driving your car down the highway and a pedestrian jumps in front of you so close that there is nothing you can do...
  - nommm-nommm 10y ago
    That's not really homicide though.
    - koenigdavidmj 10y ago
      Homicide doesn't mean murder. It simply means the killing of a person by another. People make a big deal about how in capital punishment, the death certificate says 'homicide'. This isn't a political statement that capital punishment is murder; it is just the objective fact of what happened.
      - scoot 10y ago
        So if someone jumps out in front of you and they die, you're the victim of a homicide?
        EpicEng 10y ago
        They would be the victim....
- dietrichepp 10y ago
  I'm talking about accidentally killing someone where there is no negligence or intent. It's not a crime. It's still homicide. Accidental -> reckless -> negligent -> intentional
anders098 10y ago
At least she should get punished at some level.Not like nothing happend and she can still run for president. What a joke. Shame on us.
- x0x0 10y ago
  The voters are the ultimate authority in all of this, and we get to decide in November.
- collias 10y ago
  Agreed. Even if she _actually_ didn't mean any harm by this, it's insane that we would be okay having someone this negligent vying for the most powerful office in the world. Of course, the argument that she had no intent is getting tougher to prove with each bit of information coming out. The fact that she (or one of her people) just happened to use BleachBit once they realized investigation was imminent is pretty damning.
vonmoltke 10y ago
> "State secrets" is also one thing, "classified material" is another thing. No, actually (in the US at least) they are the same thing.
- effie 10y ago
  Perhaps he meant that not all classified material is state secret.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    In the sense that not all classified material should be classified, perhaps. By definition, though, the US government considers everything classified to be a state secret.
tinalumfoil 10y ago
Accidental homicide is called manslaughter, and is very much a crime.
- EpicEng 10y ago
  Manslaughter requires negligence. Not all homicides are a result of negligence, i.e., shit happens.
ethanbond 10y ago
"Gross negligence" in handling classified material is also criminal, regardless of intent.

nommm-nommm 10y ago

Accidental homicide isn't a crime? I thought that was what involuntary manslaughter was?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
gnarbarian 10y ago
IANAL. It depends on who is at fault. If you are driving your car down the highway and a pedestrian jumps in front of you so close that there is nothing you can do...
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  That's not really homicide though.
  - koenigdavidmj 10y ago
    Homicide doesn't mean murder. It simply means the killing of a person by another. People make a big deal about how in capital punishment, the death certificate says 'homicide'. This isn't a political statement that capital punishment is murder; it is just the objective fact of what happened.
    - scoot 10y ago
      So if someone jumps out in front of you and they die, you're the victim of a homicide?
      - EpicEng 10y ago
        They would be the victim....
dietrichepp 10y ago
I'm talking about accidentally killing someone where there is no negligence or intent. It's not a crime. It's still homicide. Accidental -> reckless -> negligent -> intentional

anders098 10y ago

At least she should get punished at some level.Not like nothing happend and she can still run for president. What a joke. Shame on us.

x0x0 10y ago
The voters are the ultimate authority in all of this, and we get to decide in November.
collias 10y ago
Agreed. Even if she _actually_ didn't mean any harm by this, it's insane that we would be okay having someone this negligent vying for the most powerful office in the world. Of course, the argument that she had no intent is getting tougher to prove with each bit of information coming out. The fact that she (or one of her people) just happened to use BleachBit once they realized investigation was imminent is pretty damning.

vonmoltke 10y ago

> "State secrets" is also one thing, "classified material" is another thing. No, actually (in the US at least) they are the same thing.

effie 10y ago
Perhaps he meant that not all classified material is state secret.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  In the sense that not all classified material should be classified, perhaps. By definition, though, the US government considers everything classified to be a state secret.

tinalumfoil 10y ago

Accidental homicide is called manslaughter, and is very much a crime.

EpicEng 10y ago
Manslaughter requires negligence. Not all homicides are a result of negligence, i.e., shit happens.

ethanbond 10y ago

"Gross negligence" in handling classified material is also criminal, regardless of intent.