3 ms·

I realize it's quite fashionable to bash "smart TV's" in this thread, but I've got a Sony 2016 Bravia and love it. It runs Android TV and has the usual stuff vi

by scurvy 10y ago

I realize it's quite fashionable to bash "smart TV's" in this thread, but I've got a Sony 2016 Bravia and love it. It runs Android TV and has the usual stuff via Android app store (Netflix, Plex, etc). It has built-in chromecast support, too. Everything is nice and responsive; no complaints. The HDMI CEC supports works well, so I can do everything from 1 remote.

rspeer 10y ago
But will you still love it in 2020? Home electronics used to last longer than this.
- voltagex_ 10y ago
  The first TV I remember at my parents' place was thrown out after twenty years. The first TV I bought for my place (admittedly for $999AUD) was thrown out after 5 years - ironically because I wanted a "smart" feature, HDMI CEC. I'm now using a second hand Sony TV that just barely supports the HDMI CEC features I need - enough for it to be driven by a Raspberry Pi, at least. Our electronics don't last as long but we ask a lot more of them.
- scurvy 10y ago
  Considering that it replaced a TV from 2005, I'd wager yes. 4K will probably be the last big consumer TV tech push until we get cybernetic implants for eyes. You can't see a difference from 4K to 8K at under 100" screen sizes.
4ad 10y ago
> Everything is nice and responsive; no complaints. My parents-in-law have the same TV. The UI is the most frustrating UI I ever had to use. Please give me back the dumb 1-level-deep dumb UI. Apart from how hard is to actually do anything (because the Android crap just gets in the way), everything is so slow and takes forever. There's so much lag in everything. So much time until the damn app that I need starts. So much time until the damn thing boots. With the previous TV, it took less than half a second to change inputs. Everything was smooth and responsive. Now it takes about 10 seconds, and it's 10 very, very frustrating seconds. Plus, the worst of all, audio and video are not synchronised on this TV. How can it have such a basic problem, I can't explain. By turning image processing and all that crap off (as much as possible), A/V sync has gotten better, but it's still noticeable to me, and, very, very, very annoying. So I split A/V signal, and route the digital audio through a box that delays it as much as the TV delays the image, so I can get them in sync. But depending on the load on the TV, the delay is not constant. It changes during the movie. It's the most frustrating piece of equipment I ever laid hands on.
- scurvy 10y ago
  Boots? It only boots after power outages or updates. Otherwise it's in standby mode and the display turns on in a matter of seconds. The UI is 1 layer deep unless you're in the settings menu. Apps are their own thing. No sync issues for me as it's all pass through to sound bar.
  - 4ad 10y ago
    > turns on in a matter of seconds. Are you serious? Seconds??? Turning on a TV and waiting seconds is considered acceptable today? My displays start in milliseconds. > No sync issues for me Ah, yes, the "not for me" argument. > as it's all pass through to sound bar. This is not quite true, as my measurements showed, but if it were strictly true it would be bad, because video takes time to process, and audio would come too early. But in the 3D configuration the sound bar adds a delay of its own. How do you think the 3D sound works? There's a DSP, with a buffer, and sound is delayed such then when taking in account reflections in the room, etc, you get the impression of 3D sound. To work properly, the delay is on the order of second-order reflections in the room. But even in the 2D configuration the sound bar adds a delay, as I measured with an oscilloscope. I guess they just turn the DSP program off, but still pass it through all the buffers. This is trivial to hear without an oscilloscope, just turn on both the sound bar and integrated TV speakers. However the culprit is not the audio chain, which seems to have a deterministic latency, it's the video chain, which has a nondeterministic latency. In the default configuration the TV comes with a lot of stupid and absolutely awful video processing filters in the chain, for example 60Hz interpolation, all kind of noise reduction filters, a compressor, etc. All these add variable video latency, and there doesn't seem to be any kind of feedback between the audio and video chains. The audio/video sync problem is a well known problem: https://www.google.at/search?q=sony+bravia+audio+video+sync+delay https://www.google.at/search?q=sony+bravia+audio+video+sync+... By turning as much as as the video processing off as the dreaded UI will let you, you can minimise the audio/video delay, but as I observed with an oscilloscope, you can never bring it down to acceptable levels. I have a extra hardware device in the audio chain that I can use to sync them up, but it's a PITA to use because each time I change input sources, or do anything really, the video delay changes and I have to reset. Plus, one day I got a software upgrade, and all my careful setting of disabled the vomit-inducing video processing were reset to default. I guess it works all fine if you have no standards.

by scurvy 10y ago

rspeer 10y ago

But will you still love it in 2020? Home electronics used to last longer than this.

voltagex_ 10y ago
The first TV I remember at my parents' place was thrown out after twenty years. The first TV I bought for my place (admittedly for $999AUD) was thrown out after 5 years - ironically because I wanted a "smart" feature, HDMI CEC. I'm now using a second hand Sony TV that just barely supports the HDMI CEC features I need - enough for it to be driven by a Raspberry Pi, at least. Our electronics don't last as long but we ask a lot more of them.
scurvy 10y ago
Considering that it replaced a TV from 2005, I'd wager yes. 4K will probably be the last big consumer TV tech push until we get cybernetic implants for eyes. You can't see a difference from 4K to 8K at under 100" screen sizes.

4ad 10y ago

> Everything is nice and responsive; no complaints. My parents-in-law have the same TV. The UI is the most frustrating UI I ever had to use. Please give me back the dumb 1-level-deep dumb UI. Apart from how hard is to actually do anything (because the Android crap just gets in the way), everything is so slow and takes forever. There's so much lag in everything. So much time until the damn app that I need starts. So much time until the damn thing boots. With the previous TV, it took less than half a second to change inputs. Everything was smooth and responsive. Now it takes about 10 seconds, and it's 10 very, very frustrating seconds. Plus, the worst of all, audio and video are not synchronised on this TV. How can it have such a basic problem, I can't explain. By turning image processing and all that crap off (as much as possible), A/V sync has gotten better, but it's still noticeable to me, and, very, very, very annoying. So I split A/V signal, and route the digital audio through a box that delays it as much as the TV delays the image, so I can get them in sync. But depending on the load on the TV, the delay is not constant. It changes during the movie. It's the most frustrating piece of equipment I ever laid hands on.

scurvy 10y ago
Boots? It only boots after power outages or updates. Otherwise it's in standby mode and the display turns on in a matter of seconds. The UI is 1 layer deep unless you're in the settings menu. Apps are their own thing. No sync issues for me as it's all pass through to sound bar.
- 4ad 10y ago
  > turns on in a matter of seconds. Are you serious? Seconds??? Turning on a TV and waiting seconds is considered acceptable today? My displays start in milliseconds. > No sync issues for me Ah, yes, the "not for me" argument. > as it's all pass through to sound bar. This is not quite true, as my measurements showed, but if it were strictly true it would be bad, because video takes time to process, and audio would come too early. But in the 3D configuration the sound bar adds a delay of its own. How do you think the 3D sound works? There's a DSP, with a buffer, and sound is delayed such then when taking in account reflections in the room, etc, you get the impression of 3D sound. To work properly, the delay is on the order of second-order reflections in the room. But even in the 2D configuration the sound bar adds a delay, as I measured with an oscilloscope. I guess they just turn the DSP program off, but still pass it through all the buffers. This is trivial to hear without an oscilloscope, just turn on both the sound bar and integrated TV speakers. However the culprit is not the audio chain, which seems to have a deterministic latency, it's the video chain, which has a nondeterministic latency. In the default configuration the TV comes with a lot of stupid and absolutely awful video processing filters in the chain, for example 60Hz interpolation, all kind of noise reduction filters, a compressor, etc. All these add variable video latency, and there doesn't seem to be any kind of feedback between the audio and video chains. The audio/video sync problem is a well known problem: https://www.google.at/search?q=sony+bravia+audio+video+sync+delay https://www.google.at/search?q=sony+bravia+audio+video+sync+... By turning as much as as the video processing off as the dreaded UI will let you, you can minimise the audio/video delay, but as I observed with an oscilloscope, you can never bring it down to acceptable levels. I have a extra hardware device in the audio chain that I can use to sync them up, but it's a PITA to use because each time I change input sources, or do anything really, the video delay changes and I have to reset. Plus, one day I got a software upgrade, and all my careful setting of disabled the vomit-inducing video processing were reset to default. I guess it works all fine if you have no standards.